Bal 8.02.20/13.6.20 - Mozart: Symphony no. 39 in E flat K.543

[Braunschlag]

I’ll go along with that, esp. Bernstein lent to me by FHG years ago. I’ll quite happily spin that over and over without having any thought that I need any new ears. Same goes for the Leibowitz Beethoven series - who needs antiques played out of tune when that sets the standard.....

[jayne lee wilson]

I’ll go along with that, esp. Bernstein lent to me by FHG years ago. I’ll quite happily spin that over and over without having any thought that I need any new ears. Same goes for the Leibowitz Beethoven series - who needs antiques played out of tune when that sets the standard.....

Oh Braunschlag, you're so provocative.....

I could tell you what's wrong with LvB/Leibowitz.... I bought it years ago on 20x128 Chesky and admire(d) it greatly.... yeah, like that would be time well-spent on a warm afternoon.....

Coffee, brandy & Observer Review instead....

[richardfinegold]

Where does ASMF/Marriner fall on the Dinosaur/HIPP scale? After learning this piece from Klemperer and Szell, Marriner seemed like a breath of fresh air in a musty antique shop. I’ve come to like like Pinnock and Hogwood, but also really like Krips/Concertgebouw. Marriner is my first choice here, seeming to combine the right amount of energy and stylishness

[David P]

Some serious misrepresentation of Kenyon's excellent survey (full of knowledge lightly worn, both of music and recorded catalogue) in some of the posts above: his final two (he made clear that a given listener might choose either) were SCO/Mackerras (modern instrument) and Freiburg Baroque/Jacobs (period instrument). He also had high praise for both Harnoncourt recordings: RCOA (SO, modern instrument) and the CMW (CO, Period instrument).

That does indeed cover a range of HIPP, "modern" (however loosely defined) and "traditional" approaches (including one SO among the COs; and the SCO as recorded by Linn also have a fairly large-scale sound themselves).
Or is it to be proposed that Harnoncourt in Amsterdam, or Mackerras in Glasgow, are by some definitional creed less "traditional" than, say, Bohm, Szell or Reiner...?
Nor should a listener loosely categorise SCO/Mackerras or RCOA/Harnoncourt as in some easily narrowed-down HIPPs category. Their differences are far more striking and interesting than any supposed stylistic or performance-traditional similarity. And however you try to define "traditional", these two recordings (from 1984 and 2008) are clearly related to, and respectful of, earlier performance styles .

And as LMP said above, his preference for the Chamber Orchestral sound was carefully expressed.

When I referred to "traditional" (for want of a better word) I had in mind orchestral sonority as much as tempo or phrasing.

Yes, Kenyon did express a preference once into the comparisons. But again why pick the worst example he could find to illustrate the approach he didn't like (and then make no further reference to that approach other than a nod in the direction of Wand (which was with a smaller ensemble also). BAL is not spontaneous but is scripted and structured in advance, illustrated recordings included. He's not alone in using this tactic of course. Erica Jeal did exactly the same a few years back with the BAL on one of Schumann's symphonies.

Having said all of that I share the enthusiasm for the SCO/Mackerras. I can take either that or VPO/Bernstein (however different they are) depending on what mood I'm in

[jayne lee wilson]

You can hear the Jacobs here of course....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000k26q

..or on various streamers....eg...

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/mozart-symphonies-nos39-40-freiburger-barockorchester-rene-jacobs/0794881943722

[richardfinegold]

You can hear the Jacobs here of course....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000k26q

..or on various streamers....eg...
https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/mo.../0794881943722

Just listened to Jacobs on Qobuz. A lot more enjoyable than I had remembered it. The tempos moved along but the music had time to breathe. My quibble would be in the last 2 movements, particularly in III, it can chug along a bit motorically. Some of that maybe Mozart fault but other conductors can sound less mechanical here. That’s a minor complaint, however; had I heard this in the Concert Hall Iwould have been more than satisfied .
I’m less happy with the accompanying K.. 550, but that would a different thread...

[kernelbogey]

Symphony No.39 in E flat major, K.543 (4th mvt)

Ensemble Resonanz. Conductor: Riccardo Minasi.

• I MOZART: SYMPHONIES NOS. 39, 40 & 41 "JUPITER".
• HARMONIA MUNDI.
• 4.

Played - last movement, anyway - on Breakfast today 14.6.24 c 0803 [1.33.07]

I thought it rather mannered.

Any views?

[smittims]

Not so much mannered as bad-mannered. Mozart for a rock-music era. Thump, Thump ,Thump. Mozart to annoy the neighbours. It's said that every age re-interprets history in its own light. I was sorry to hear this as I know Ensemble Resonanz can play well on the right occasion. .

I heard the Freibourg Orchestra yesterday playing Handel. They sounded like an out-of tune school orchestra. Many years ago James Jolly played them in the Jupiter finale. It sounded as if it was played by a computer. Two or three Proms seasons ago K 543 was played on TV by an orchestra conducted (if that's the word) by a young man who looked like a prancing ballet-dancer. I was sure they'd have played it just the same if he'd merely stood still and beaten time.

No. I'm glad I can hear Beecham or Furtwangler in K543 whenever I like. That's the way I like to hear Mozart. And for more recent recordings there's Colin Davis or Jeffrey Tate, either of whom I find very satisfying.

[kernelbogey]

I have the Mackerras/SCSO set of 39, 40 & 41 which I think is perfect.

[cloughie]

They don't in Jacobs' hands!

BUT He tends to go crackers!

[Lordgeous]

I have the Mackerras/SCSO set of 39, 40 & 41 which I think is perfect.

Likewise.

[richardfinegold]

Not so much mannered as bad-mannered. Mozart for a rock-music era. Thump, Thump ,Thump. Mozart to annoy the neighbours. It's said that every age re-interprets history in its own light. I was sorry to hear this as I know Ensemble Resonanz can play well on the right occasion. .

I heard the Freibourg Orchestra yesterday playing Handel. They sounded like an out-of tune school orchestra. Many years ago James Jolly played them in the Jupiter finale. It sounded as if it was played by a computer. Two or three Proms seasons ago K 543 was played on TV by an orchestra conducted (if that's the word) by a young man who looked like a prancing ballet-dancer. I was sure they'd have played it just the same if he'd merely stood still and beaten time.

No. I'm glad I can hear Beecham or Furtwangler in K543 whenever I like. That's the way I like to hear Mozart. And for more recent recordings there's Colin Davis or Jeffrey Tate, either of whom I find very satisfying.

Every time I hear the Freiburg Orchestra I think that they must have binged on Crystal Meth in the rehearsal room. Fried, indeed

[kernelbogey]

Ensemble Resonanz. Conductor: Riccardo Minasi.

What struck me most (on the one hearing) was a kind of rest introduced - perhaps in the conductor's mind for emphasis? - but which I am sure is not in the score. The musicians seemed to play ok but there were moments where the pause became a hesitation, as if the direction from the podium was unclear.

[MickyD]

Every time I hear the Freiburg Orchestra I think that they must have binged on Crystal Meth in the rehearsal room. Fried, indeed

Yes, I would agree with that - the sort of playing that you might enjoy in an exciting one-off concert but not for repeated listening on CD. Yet they certainly have their admirers.

[Goon525]

Every time I hear the Freiburg Orchestra I think that they must have binged on Crystal Meth in the rehearsal room. Fried, indeed

That must have been the one episode of Breaking Bad I missed.