Bal 8.02.20/13.6.20 - Mozart: Symphony no. 39 in E flat K.543

[Bryn]

I have a particular fondness for K. 543 since it was the first Mozart Symphony I heard in concert (at the then Moredon Secondary Modern School in Swindon). The orchestra was the Bournemouth Symphony but I do not recall who the conductor was (it was an event for pupils from schools throughout Swindon). The symphony is the only work I remember from that concert. It remains a firm favourite. My 'go-to' recording is that with the SCO conducted by Sir Charles Mackerras.

[Tony Halstead]

Wot no AAM/Hogwood?

The Academy of Ancient Music's recording is indeed on Alpie's list (the late Chris Hogwood very much liked his orchestra's name to include the definite article!) but it is somewhat buried under the credited directorship of (the late) Jaap Schröder. It's not clear-cut because in the early days of The Academy of Ancient Music Hogwood and Schröder shared the directing simultaneously, the former from the harpsichord and the latter from the violin. I didn't start playing with The AAM until 1984, so I have no direct experience of how this 'joint conducting' worked in practice.

[Tony Halstead]

Thanks for the great list. I would go as far as to say that the slow introduction in the first movt is one of my favourite bits in all music....

Yes, I too love that 'slow' introduction. About 20 years ago, having conducted it a few times in the traditional manner ('on the slow side') with a few amateur orchestras, I was lucky enough to be asked to conduct it at the Barbican, London, with a professional 'telephone orchestra', with only a single rehearsal on the concert day ( as they do!). At that time I was studying with Sir Charles Mackerras, and managed to have a lesson
(unforgettable) with him about a week before the concert. He asked me to launch into the first movement, in which I had decided to give FOUR crotchet beats so as to keep it flowing, rather than the customary eight quaver beats. After only 3 bars of what must have been 'visual torture' for him, he stopped me, quietly asking 'do you realise that your tempo is about half speed'?
Dumbfounded, I mumbled that I quite liked 'my' tempo... Sir C said 'I don't think Mozart would have liked 'your' tempo! Surely you must have noticed the time signature, if you have really studied the score?'
'Yes, of course, ADAGIO, 4 in a bar; I answered.
'Adagio, YES, but TWO IN A BAR!' he almost shouted... of course he was absolutely right. The time signature is actually 'C' ( 4 in a bar) but with a line vertically bisecting it, 'cut four' as Americans say, meaning TWO large, slow (of necessity) beats in a bar!
At the end of our highly illuminating session, Sir C's final encouragement to me was 'now go and practise two slow but clear beats in a bar!'.
To cut a long story short, on the concert day, feeling confident about the 'slow' introduction (as much as any conductor with only one precious rehearsal can be confident), I started the piece... Oh dear, after about 4 bars the leader tapped his bow on the stand so as to pause the rehearsal, and very politely asked 'please could you give us the 8 quavers?'

[Barbirollians]

Sadly with twofers there are no unmissable BALs anymore IMO.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Tony - many thanks for the priceless #18.

[Bryn]

Yes, I too love that 'slow' introduction. About 20 years ago, having conducted it a few times in the traditional manner ('on the slow side') with a few amateur orchestras, I was lucky enough to be asked to conduct it at the Barbican, London, with a professional 'telephone orchestra', with only a single rehearsal on the concert day ( as they do!). At that time I was studying with Sir Charles Mackerras, and managed to have a lesson
(unforgettable) with him about a week before the concert. He asked me to launch into the first movement, in which I had decided to give FOUR crotchet beats so as to keep it flowing, rather than the customary eight quaver beats. After only 3 bars of what must have been 'visual torture' for him, he stopped me, quietly asking 'do you realise that your tempo is about half speed'?
Dumbfounded, I mumbled that I quite liked 'my' tempo... Sir C said 'I don't think Mozart would have liked 'your' tempo! Surely you must have noticed the time signature, if you have really studied the score?'
'Yes, of course, ADAGIO, 4 in a bar; I answered.
'Adagio, YES, but TWO IN A BAR!' he almost shouted... of course he was absolutely right. The time signature is actually 'C' with a line vertically bisecting it, 'cut four' as Americans say. Two large, slow (of necessity) beats in a bar! . . .

As with the 'slow' movement of the Beethoven's 'Emperor' piano concerto.

[Richard Barrett]

after about 4 bars the leader tapped his bow on the stand so as to pause the rehearsal, and very politely asked 'please could you give us the 8 quavers?'

Great story. I somehow knew it was going to end like that though!

Harnoncourt's late recording of 39-41 as a single huge structure was a revelation to me. Mind you he (like Brüggen) was one of those conductors whose beat was mysterious to the point of being invisible, to me at least. I wonder how people manage with conductors like that.

[Bryn]

Great story. I somehow knew it was going to end like that though!

Harnoncourt's late recording of 39-41 as a single huge structure was a revelation to me. Mind you he (like Brüggen) was one of those conductors whose beat was mysterious to the point of being invisible, to me at least. I wonder how people manage with conductors like that.

Thanks for that. I have that disc in the Sony big Harnoncourt box. Will spin this afternoon.

[Barbirollians]

Yes, I too love that 'slow' introduction. About 20 years ago, having conducted it a few times in the traditional manner ('on the slow side') with a few amateur orchestras, I was lucky enough to be asked to conduct it at the Barbican, London, with a professional 'telephone orchestra', with only a single rehearsal on the concert day ( as they do!). At that time I was studying with Sir Charles Mackerras, and managed to have a lesson
(unforgettable) with him about a week before the concert. He asked me to launch into the first movement, in which I had decided to give FOUR crotchet beats so as to keep it flowing, rather than the customary eight quaver beats. After only 3 bars of what must have been 'visual torture' for him, he stopped me, quietly asking 'do you realise that your tempo is about half speed'?
Dumbfounded, I mumbled that I quite liked 'my' tempo... Sir C said 'I don't think Mozart would have liked 'your' tempo! Surely you must have noticed the time signature, if you have really studied the score?'
'Yes, of course, ADAGIO, 4 in a bar; I answered.
'Adagio, YES, but TWO IN A BAR!' he almost shouted... of course he was absolutely right. The time signature is actually 'C' ( 4 in a bar) but with a line vertically bisecting it, 'cut four' as Americans say, meaning TWO large, slow (of necessity) beats in a bar!
At the end of our highly illuminating session, Sir C's final encouragement to me was 'now go and practise two slow but clear beats in a bar!'.
To cut a long story short, on the concert day, feeling confident about the 'slow' introduction (as much as any conductor with only one precious rehearsal can be confident), I started the piece... Oh dear, after about 4 bars the leader tapped his bow on the stand so as to pause the rehearsal, and very politely asked 'please could you give us the 8 quavers?'

Great story - SCO/Mackerras and 1950s Philharmonia/Klemperer are my favourites but I am very fond of lots of other recordings.

[MickyD]

The Academy of Ancient Music's recording is indeed on Alpie's list (the late Chris Hogwood very much liked his orchestra's name to include the definite article!) but it is somewhat buried under the credited directorship of (the late) Jaap Schröder. It's not clear-cut because in the early days of The Academy of Ancient Music Hogwood and Schröder shared the directing simultaneously, the former from the harpsichord and the latter from the violin. I didn't start playing with The AAM until 1984, so I have no direct experience of how this 'joint conducting' worked in practice.

I well remember two one-hour programmes on BBC 2 around the time of the launch of the AAM Mozart cycle, filmed at Kedleston Hall in Derbyshire. The first programme consisted of Hogwood and Schroder and other players demonstrating instruments, orchestral layout and the direction from violin and keyboard. The second programme was a full concert of symphonies. These programmes must lurk in the BBC archives somewhere - I would love to see them again.

[Nimrod]

Sadly with twofers there are no unmissable BALs anymore IMO.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes, I too love that 'slow' introduction. About 20 years ago, having conducted it a few times in the traditional manner ('on the slow side') with a few amateur orchestras, I was lucky enough to be asked to conduct it at the Barbican, London, with a professional 'telephone orchestra', with only a single rehearsal on the concert day ( as they do!). At that time I was studying with Sir Charles Mackerras, and managed to have a lesson
(unforgettable) with him about a week before the concert. He asked me to launch into the first movement, in which I had decided to give FOUR crotchet beats so as to keep it flowing, rather than the customary eight quaver beats. After only 3 bars of what must have been 'visual torture' for him, he stopped me, quietly asking 'do you realise that your tempo is about half speed'?
Dumbfounded, I mumbled that I quite liked 'my' tempo... Sir C said 'I don't think Mozart would have liked 'your' tempo! Surely you must have noticed the time signature, if you have really studied the score?'
'Yes, of course, ADAGIO, 4 in a bar; I answered.
'Adagio, YES, but TWO IN A BAR!' he almost shouted... of course he was absolutely right. The time signature is actually 'C' ( 4 in a bar) but with a line vertically bisecting it, 'cut four' as Americans say, meaning TWO large, slow (of necessity) beats in a bar!
At the end of our highly illuminating session, Sir C's final encouragement to me was 'now go and practise two slow but clear beats in a bar!'.
To cut a long story short, on the concert day, feeling confident about the 'slow' introduction (as much as any conductor with only one precious rehearsal can be confident), I started the piece... Oh dear, after about 4 bars the leader tapped his bow on the stand so as to pause the rehearsal, and very politely asked 'please could you give us the 8 quavers?'

That’s such a great story .i don’t think I’ll be able to listen on Saturday without that coming to mind . I reckon the way to cap it would be to give the incoming 3/4 section a bit of a waltz feel...
On the intro - it’s amazing how moving those simple rising flute arpeggios are.. Mozart really was the master of simplicity.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Very surprised and pleased that Alpie's list includes the Glyndebourne/ Gui version, even if download only. It was one of my dad's mono LPs which I started listening to in my teens, then his only WAM symphony (coupled with Haydn 95, his only etc etc).

The Gui is now on my shelves, Dad having no more use for it for the usual reason

A few more versions of my own added since though - Hogwood, Beecham, SCO/Mackerras at least.

Rather less thrilled if the BPO/ Karajans in Alpie's list include his 70s HMV version, a later Dad purchase which I've not kept on my shelves!

[pastoralguy]

The last movement is an real audition piece for fiddle players! In fact, I remember scraping away at it with the metronome at some point in the 80's. In fact, I remember playing it on a period instrument fiddle that a friend had recently bought. Infinity easier with the flatter bridge!

[richardfinegold]

So many good recordings in the list. A shame to see some of my favourites as 'download only' (Krips/Concertgebouw for one) and surprised if Karajan's 1940's VPO one has disappeared as I have it in the Warner Remastered edition.

I'm going to stick my neck out and nominate Abbado/Orchestra Mozart as the recording which has given me particular pleasure as the 'winner'. Complete with all repeats (subtly varied) Abbado makes it a truly grand symphony. No-one could fail to be thrilled by it and it's my stand out choice. Mackerras with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra runs him close, as does Britten, but Claudio is your man in this!

Makes me glad that I bought the Phillips Box of the Krips recordings.