BaL 18.01.20 - Beethoven: Symphony no. 1 in C, Op.21

[seabright]

Prompted by this thread to listen to three today.

Konwitschny/Gewandhaus 1963 -old school and good

Klemperer/Philharmonia - live on tour in Vienna in 1960 (favourite so far)

Norrington/LCP 1988 (still a favourite 30 years on)

I was happy to listen to the Leibowitz / RPO version a day or so ago, as it reminded me of the great Beethoven cycle he recorded for Readers Digest all those years ago. However, since I also have Mackerras / RLPO, Paray / Detroit and Reiner / Chicago in the work, all of them first-class in performance and sound, I don't feel the need at all for yet another recording of a work I very seldom listen to anyway. For that reason I probably won't bother to tune in!

On the other hand, if they do a BAL on Tchaikovsky's 1st Symphony then I would tune in ... or has that already been done in the recent past?

[Stanfordian]

Of the more recent recordings I admire the account from Dresdner Philharmonie under Michael Sanderling, recorded 2017, Lukaskirche, Dresden on Sony Classical coupled with Shostokovich Symphony No. 1. It's also on the orchestra's set of the complete Beethoven symphonies on Sony.

[pastoralguy]

Ah, so you chickened out, eh?

[jayne lee wilson]

Like a history of great recordings......
Been round the block with this one a few times!

....I start with Toscanini 1939, Mengelberg 1940, Scherchen 1954 (all of which would still thrill me today); into Stereo it was Karajan 1963, Philharmonia/Klemperer (various issues/reissues/CDs/Pristine downloads - forget exact date) - but these wouldn't give me much pleasure now; the 80s was NDR/Gunter Wand, loved it at the time - wonderful band - but then.....

Along came a Spider.... all those new thrills from the earthy Bruggen (1), Norrington, Harnoncourt's tonally gorgeous and virtuosically superb COE, had my moments with Krivine but not so sure now, and finally..... Adam Fischer and the Danish CO, as exciting a Beethoven performance as I've heard since the Toscanini (but more wilfully Mengelbergian in approach)...wonderful sound too. Along the way, very taken with Minnesota/Vanska in 24/44.1.....

I'd like to compare the LCP/Norrington with his SWR revisit (usually prefer the latter in his Schubert, Haydn etc., sense of a live occasion, better & warmer sound..), but suffering with Winter Blues now (again...), appetite for listening much diminished... not to mention a Major Boiler Failure.....(cracks, fumes etc, spectacular!... if you're gonna go...)...
Awaiting various visits and vast quotes, surviving on inadequate plugins in large draughty rooms...sweeping around in gowns & shawls like a GoT grandee.....
The stereo seat is not so inviting, usually huddled by a storage heater in the corner reading & drinking with baroque concertos (LeClair) bubbling along........ much mulled wine and brandy, better for listening at first, worse later.... Endurance is all.... better off in bed. Or on long Country Walks.

Engineer (1) just been & gone....worried about asbestos in the outhouse...(say what?!)...more delays..... more coffee & cognac now....how will the Wolf survive? Etc...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm a huge fan of Bruno Walter's Beethoven, the polar opposite to Toscanini, who is also rather exciting, but often marred by the dry RCA sound.

Roger Norrington again. Not for me, I'm afraid, though I prefer his LCP to his Stuttgart soggy compromise. Happily, he doesn't make the Stuttgarters sound like a school orchestra in Beethoven.

But give me Abbado, Karajan, Walter and Furtwangler () anytime.

[Pulcinella]

The Holberg Suite, yes, but definitely not Elijah. The third set work was a hybrid Mozart piano sonatas with two K numbers.

That's odd!
Maybe there was some wider choice, but we definitely did the Elijah Baal sequence.

[jayne lee wilson]

I'm a huge fan of Bruno Walter's Beethoven, the polar opposite to Toscanini, who is also rather exciting, but often marred by the dry RCA sound.

Roger Norrington again. Not for me, I'm afraid, though I prefer his LCP to his Stuttgart soggy compromise. Happily, he doesn't make the Stuttgarters sound like a school orchestra in Beethoven.

But give me Abbado, Karajan, Walter and Furtwangler () anytime.

The 1950s RCA recordings rarely show Toscanini at his best, which was almost always live & earlier, with the NBC/NYPO, variously issued reissued by Pristine, Immortal Performances etc (complete with announcements) or best of all for 1939, Music & Arts (the later 2013 restoration, big improvement over 2007).

Nothing remotely "soggy" about RN's SWR recordings, classic German Radio sound (nobody does it better), among the best sound you'll ever hear off of CD. I have all of the Beethoven & Haydn, much of the Schubert and Bruckner from that source, among the most neutral, accurate and pleasurable musically and sonically of any CDs/downloads on my shelves or drives.

Replayed on neutral & highly resolved systems, stylistically they are a marvellous blend of the crisp and warm, transparency and blend, easy on the ear but very dynamic. An epitome.

Many are on Qobuz etc, for anyone to hear for themselves.....

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

That's odd!
Maybe there was some wider choice, but we definitely did the Elijah Baal sequence.

I'm definitely puzzled by this. It was NUJMB, but no Baal. The piano sonata required candidates to take the music into the exam, with no markings other than bar numbers.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Nothing remotely "soggy" about RN's SWR recordings, classic German Radio sound (nobody does it better), among the best sound you'll ever hear off of CD.

By "soggy", I was referring to the soggy compromise of claiming to be HIPP with modern instruments - not to the sound (which isn't soggy at all - just rather undesirable to my ears).

"nobody does it better"? Schuricht did, with this same orchestra.

[Nick Armstrong]

Just for the record, I couldn't bring myself to cut and paste the spiel on the BBC website.

Blimey, I see what you mean... the HIPP-friendly New Year intern had been necking the sherry before writing that spiel, I suspect:

this symphony is very well represented in the catalogue but with a foot in both the 18th and 19th centuries, is it best performed by historically informed period-instrument ensembles or grizzled maestros and bloated symphony orchestras?

Nice BBC balance there

Reminds one of Peter Cook as the Thorpe trial judge... “You may choose, if you wish, to believe the transparent tissue of odious lies which streamed on and on from his disgusting, greedy, slavering lips. That is entirely a matter for you...”

[jayne lee wilson]

By "soggy", I was referring to the soggy compromise of claiming to be HIPP with modern instruments - not to the sound (which isn't soggy at all - just rather undesirable to my ears).

"nobody does it better"? Schuricht did, with this same orchestra.

Well that's a strange choice of words..
...."nobody.. better etc" - comment on German Radio Recordings back to the 1950s...(Production/engineering for Rosbaud etc)...

"claiming to be HIPP with modern instruments".....

I prefer to listen to the musical result rather than scrutinise any rubric or credo.... which, in the SWR/RN Beethoven Cycle, is self-evidently outstanding.
I do know the Paris/Schuricht....its OK, I wouldn't call it exceptional by any means. Kinda what I expect from that source/tradition.

[Pulcinella]

I'm definitely puzzled by this. It was NUJMB, but no Baal. The piano sonata required candidates to take the music into the exam, with no markings other than bar numbers.

We must have sat a slightly different option then.
Or maybe you just studied two of the three set works and we covered all three as an insurance policy?
We had to answer questions on two of the set works.
I don't recall studying a Mozart piano sonata (but may well have forgotten or expunged it from my memory!).

Volume 2 of the estimable Annie O Warburton series has an analysis of both the Elijah extracts (pp 188–193) and the Holberg Suite (pp 257–262), but no list of when the works were set; the Beethoven appears in Volume 1.

[Bryn]

HIPP = Historically Informed Performance Practice. It can, as in the case of the SWR/Norrington Beethoven Symphonies survey, relate to performances utilising modern, beefed-up instruments, though not, of course, to the degree achievable with instruments reflecting the construction of those available at the time the works were composed, i.e. those for which they were written. As Norrington points out, the SWR performance of the 9th corrects his misreading of the final movement of the 9th as found in the LCP recordings (both those on CD and as televised).

[vinteuil]

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this symphony is very well represented in the catalogue but with a foot in both the 18th and 19th centuries, is it best performed by historically informed period-instrument ensembles or grizzled maestros and bloated symphony orchestras?

... a pretty fair statement of the choices available, as far as I can see




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[Bryn]

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... a pretty fair statement of the choices available, as far as I can see




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Hmm. But what about the Little Orchestra of London (with Leslie Jones at the helm)? I remember that a very real breath of fresh air when it came out. Modern instruments but by no means a "bloated symphony orchestra".