BaL 4.01.20 - Elgar: Enigma Variations

[edashtav]

It was indeed a grating and tiresome BaL in presentational terms. Who thinks that dippy, middle-class gigglesome is the way to go for Record Review? Nobody here, for sure!

None the less, most of the old standard-bearers (including Barbirolli and Boult) were at least mentioned, if not illustrated. Some of the reviewer's anecdotes were new to me, and in amongst the chaff there was some good wheat about the nature of the work. Hard to disagree either with her final, very personal shortlist either - at least she didn't take a penny-in-slot route to a decision.

But what a cringeworthy listen it was.

[Dave Payn]

From what I can see from this massive list I have the
Halle/Barbirolli
BBCSO/Andrew Davis
Halle/Elder
LPO/Boult
also Eric Ball’s fine transcription for brass band played by
Black Dyke Band/Dr N J Childs

I also have the Desford/Foden recording conducted by Howard Snell which I personally prefer over the Black Dyke Band’s recording. The latter isn’t bad at all but I feel Snell’s experience as principal trumpet with LSO (where he would have played Enigma countless times) gives him the edge in getting more out of the arrangement in terms of orchestral colour.

[LMcD]

Jabber, jabber...

The worst kind of twofer, both in competition, using far too many words.

Also, some unnecessarily long excerpts.

Today. I listened to 'Building A Library' for the first time in ages. The problem with the 'Twofer' format is that we're listening to 2 broadcasters having a discussion with each other rather than 1 broadcaster talking to the listener. I shan't be tuning in again.

[ardcarp]

Quite interesting to read the Wiki article on Pierre Monteux (who of course conducted the premiere of Rite of Spring).

Here's an extract:

In June 1958 Monteux conducted the London Symphony Orchestra (LSO) in three concerts, described by the orchestra's historian Richard Morrison as "a sensation with players, press and public alike."[130] The first concert included Elgar's Enigma Variations, in which Cardus judged Monteux to be more faithful to Elgar's conception than English conductors generally were. Cardus added, "After the performance of the 'Enigma' Variations, the large audience cheered and clapped Monteux for several minutes. This applause, moreover, broke out just before the interval. English audiences are not as a rule inclined to waste time applauding at or during an interval: they usually have other things to do."[131] Monteux considered British concertgoers "the most attentive in the world", and British music critics "the most intelligent".[132] However, a disadvantage of conducting a London orchestra was having to perform at the Festival Hall, of which he shared with Beecham and other conductors an intense dislike: "from the conductor's rostrum it is impossible to hear the violins".[132]

Monteux's later London performances were not only with the LSO. In 1960 he conducted Beecham's Royal Philharmonic Orchestra performing "feats of wizardry" in works by Beethoven, Debussy and Hindemith.[133] The LSO offered him the post of principal conductor in 1961, when he was eighty-six; he accepted, on condition that he had a contract for twenty-five years, with an option of renewal.[134] His large and varied repertoire was displayed in his LSO concerts. In addition to the French repertoire with which, to his occasional irritation, he was generally associated, he programmed Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms and Wagner, as well as later composers including Granados, Schoenberg, Scriabin, Shostakovich, Sibelius, Richard Strauss and Vaughan Williams.[135] With the LSO, Monteux gave a fiftieth anniversary performance of The Rite of Spring at the Royal Albert Hall in the presence of the composer.[136] Although the recording of the occasion reveals some lapses of ensemble and slack rhythms, it was an intense and emotional concert, and Monteux climbed up to Stravinsky's box to embrace him at the end.[125][n 13] Players believed that in his few years in charge he transformed the LSO; Neville Marriner felt that he "made them feel like an international orchestra ... He gave them extended horizons and some of his achievements with the orchestra, both at home and abroad, gave them quite a different constitution."[125]

[visualnickmos]

But what a cringeworthy listen it was.

Certainly was. Like a poster a little further up-thread, I listened to, for the first time in ages. What a dreadful 'critique' 'review' call it what you will, (without getting banned from here!) It felt that rather than an informed 'gutsy' study, it was like a BBC Schools programme designed to interest 12-year-olds in classical music. Nothing wrong with that notion in essence, but BaL is NOT the place to do it, and even if it were, the standard of presentation would have bored any kid to death, by its almost patronising dialogue.

[ardcarp]

it was like a BBC Schools programme designed to interest 12-year-olds in classical music. Nothing wrong with that notion in essence, but BaL is NOT the place to do it

Yes, as has been mentioned before, the producers have completely mis-judged BAL's audience. Wilfully?

[cloughie]

Yes, as has been mentioned before, the producers have completely mis-judged BAL's audience. Wilfully?

No they just want to attract a younger audience so they don’t care about thr traditional audience!

Mind you I didn’t realise that Mrs Monteux’s pouche kept Pierre from these shores!

[DracoM]

Yes, as has been mentioned before, the producers have completely mis-judged BAL's audience. Wilfully?

Yes, the conundrum for the BBC [and US?], is who that audience is at any one time and what is the prog in discussion aimed at: e.g. Sat a.m. / 12 noon for Jess Gilliam: how many teens will be in on a Sat a.m.? Yes, I KNOW 'no-one but not-asleep, geriatric housebounds listen to live radio at all and NOT on a phone etc etc .' of course, blah blah blah. yawn??

BUT whatever, BAL is a totally different thing under ANY circs.

The only excuse for the truly flabby BAL we heard to day was that it was Enigma Variations' i.e. a piece some might consider to be a core 'starter' to a classical collection, perhaps, so tone down the scholarship? Only reason i can think of............!!

[Lordgeous]

Quite interesting to read the Wiki article on Pierre Monteux (who of course conducted the premiere of Rite of Spring).

With the LSO, Monteux gave a fiftieth anniversary performance of The Rite of Spring at the Royal Albert Hall in the presence of the composer.[136] Although the recording of the occasion reveals some lapses of ensemble and slack rhythms, it was an intense and emotional concert, and Monteux climbed up to Stravinsky's box to embrace him at the end.
[/I]

But didn't Stravinsky turn to someone afterwards to say 'Dreadful" or words to that effect.

Have to agree with most others on here regarding this disappointing BAL. At least my favourite (Del Mar) was commended but didn't like the Monteux or the sound of the Barenboim. Boult? Barbirroli? Not even a snippett! What will it take to persuade BBC to consider bringing back something like "Interpretations on Record"? A petition? And what about all John Amis' interviews with fascinating past musicians???

[gradus]

Whether or not one agrees with the exclusion of performances many regard as central to the performing trads. of the work I find nothing to dissent from in the reviewer's comments about the magnificent Monteux's recording and or that matter virtually everything else that he conducted especially with LSO.
At least the totally neglected Menuhin/RPO performance got an affectionate nod.

[Pulcinella]

Sounds like I didn't miss much!
The LSO/Monteux is on my iPod, so might just get an airing on tonight's flight back from Melbourne.

[ardcarp]

But didn't Stravinsky turn to someone afterwards to say 'Dreadful" or words to that effect.

Very possibly. But can anyone imagine being given a score, in 1913, of such rhythmic complexity and constant changes of time-sig (not to mention getting players to play outside their comfort zones) when nothing like that had been done before? Even now it is something of a Rite (ho-ho) of Passage for young up-coming conductors. I once heard Hugo Rignold attempt it with the CBSO...and this in the 1960s...and getting hopelessly lost. Malcolm Sergent [I think] refused to conduct it. So Monteux was a brave man! I doubt Stravinsky himself could have managed it at the time.

[Felix the Gnat]

What will it take to persuade BBC to consider bringing back something like "Interpretations on Record"? A petition? And what about all John Amis' interviews with fascinating past musicians???

Can someone start a petition? I'd sign.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Very possibly. But can anyone imagine being given a score, in 1913, of such rhythmic complexity and constant changes of time-sig (not to mention getting players to play outside their comfort zones) when nothing like that had been done before? Even now it is something of a Rite (ho-ho) of Passage for young up-coming conductors. I once heard Hugo Rignold attempt it with the CBSO...and this in the 1960s...and getting hopelessly lost. Malcolm Sergent [I think] refused to conduct it. So Monteux was a brave man! I doubt Stravinsky himself could have managed it at the time.

Stravinsky's reported criticism was (if it occurred at all) of the 50th anniversary performance, ardy - not the premiere. The composer had nothing but the highest praise at the time, and throughout his life, of Monteux' conducting in 1913.

[visualnickmos]

Can someone start a petition? I'd sign.

The BBC won't give a damn. You only have to listen to Radio 4's programme 'Feedback' to see that. Listeners/viewers opinions or complaints are met with an equivalent of "Go away, we're right, you're wrong, so get stuffed".