BaL 4.01.20 - Elgar: Enigma Variations

[Maclintick]

Likewise, I don’t think there was mention of the organ in the DG RPO/Del Mar, which I see is the only ‘runner-up’ mentioned on the BAL page.

Sounds as if the reviewer likes the organ addition, so it’s bizarre it wasn’t alluded to. Almost as if she wasn’t aware of it...

IIRC, Kate Kennedy praised RPO/Del Mar for bringing out that quintessentially Elgarian introspective quality, so perhaps the organist's contribution didn't feature in her appreciation. For Monteux, the Kingsway Hall pedals underpin the splendiferous coda, & the instrument adds subtly to the orchestral texture without dominating it.

RCA's 1958 stereo -- engineered by Decca's Kenneth Wilkinson -- is very good, apart from that irksome distortion on the final chords, which leads one to speculate as to why this wasn't remedied. Conceivably it may been introduced post-recording, or another possibility is that in common with other conductors of PM's generation -- Klemperer being a prime example -- Monteux viewed the relatively new practice of tape editing as essentially fraudulent, & refused any re-takes. Perhaps Le Maître simply laid down his baton & sent the orchestra packing after one take of the finale...idle speculation, I know..

[seabright]

I've been in touch with a knowledgeable contact and am able to clarify the Monteux situation! ... The YouTube upload of the 1962 broadcast from the 'BBC Legends' CD release incorrectly states it to be "live." In fact, it was a studio recording made in Kingsway Hall where Monteux's RCA recording had been made four years earlier. Why the BBC didn't use Maida Vale 1 is a mystery, as is the fact that they recorded it in mono. However, stereo broadcasting didn't come in until 1966, so doubtless that explains that particular decision. Switching between the two performances in the respective YouTube uploads reveals a remarkable similarity between them, so clearly Monteux wasn't about to change his mind on how the music should go. The BAL choice was of course the 1958 RCA stereo version.

[Braunschlag]

‘RCA's 1958 stereo -- engineered by Decca's Kenneth Wilkinson -- is very good, apart from that irksome distortion on the final chords, which leads one to speculate as to why this wasn't remedied.’

Thanks McK - I had begun to think it was just me! It’s the same on a number of different editions and I’ve tried other sources (downloads) to no avail. Annoying but it doesn’t entirely spoil it - one of those ‘if only’ moments!

[visualnickmos]

‘RCA's 1958 stereo -- engineered by Decca's Kenneth Wilkinson -- is very good, apart from that irksome distortion on the final chords, which leads one to speculate as to why this wasn't remedied.’

Thanks McK - I had begun to think it was just me! It’s the same on a number of different editions and I’ve tried other sources (downloads) to no avail. Annoying but it doesn’t entirely spoil it - one of those ‘if only’ moments!

I have the Decca Monteux/LSO version 1960/61, I think - I can't find any trace online of the 1958 RCA recording; any pointers would be most welcome, thanks all.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I have the Decca Monteux/LSO version 1960/61, I think - I can't find any trace online of the 1958 RCA recording; any pointers would be most welcome, thanks all.

It's the same recording, visnick:

https://www.discogs.com/Elgar-Brahms-Pierre-Monteux-London-Symphony-Enigma-Variations-Haydn-Variations/master/466633

https://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/products/elgar-enigma-variations-monteux-london-symphony-orchestra-pure-dsd

RCA and Decca had an agreement in the '50s & '60s (which, IIRC, was arranged to get around import regulations).

http://www.cool.conservation-us.org/byform/mailing-lists/arsclist/2008/03/msg00281.html

[Petrushka]

I have the Decca Monteux/LSO version 1960/61, I think - I can't find any trace online of the 1958 RCA recording; any pointers would be most welcome, thanks all.

It's the same one, recorded on June 24/25 1958. As part of a distribution deal between RCA and Decca, the latter used Decca producers and engineers to record RCA artists. The Enigma Variations recording was one of these with Decca producer James Walker and engineer Kenneth Wilkinson.

EDIT: Ferney got there before me!

[visualnickmos]

Thanks everyone for your help. I appreciate that. Again - the amazing and unique hive of knowledge of these boards, reigns supreme !

[Maclintick]

RCA and Decca had an agreement in the '50s & '60s (which, IIRC, was arranged to get around import regulations).

..& which also led to some contractual shenanigans where artists such as Birgit Nilsson made recordings for RCA -- again with Decca staff producers and engineers -- which competed directly with their Decca counterparts -- the classic example being the LSO/Leinsdorf "Walkure", famously briefed-against by Decca when it appeared. FWIW, I still prefer that 1961 Leinsdorf to the later Solti -- Nilsson is in better voice, Vickers' Siegmund & George London's Wotan are magnificent, & the 1960-vintage LSO -- Dennis Wicks et al -- are a match for the VPO.

Sorry, gone off-topic a bit...

[cloughie]

..& which also led to some contractual shenanigans where artists such as Birgit Nilsson made recordings for RCA -- again with Decca staff producers and engineers -- which competed directly with their Decca counterparts -- the classic example being the LSO/Leinsdorf "Walkure", famously briefed-against by Decca when it appeared. FWIW, I still prefer that 1961 Leinsdorf to the later Solti -- Nilsson is in better voice, Vickers' Siegmund & George London's Wotan are magnificent, & the 1960-vintage LSO -- Dennis Wicks et al -- are a match for the VPO.

Sorry, gone off-topic a bit...

Also the Szeryng/LSO/Monteux Brahms:VC which remained in the RCA catalogue even though the recording was made by Decca.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... I still prefer that 1961 Leinsdorf to the later Solti -- Nilsson is in better voice, Vickers' Siegmund & George London's Wotan are magnificent, & the 1960-vintage LSO -- Dennis Wicks et al -- are a match for the VPO.

- and a much better Wagner conductor for my money, too! (London is fantastic - the only Wotan on record who makes Nilsson sound scared! If only, if only, if only this team had been allowed to record the whole Ring cycle.

[seabright]

Apropos the Decca recordings referred to above, there's a very useful on-line Decca Discography - all 1,428 pages of it! - which will reveal full details of the Monteux "Enigma" on page 249, found by scrolling down the following link. A few days earlier, page 248, he'd recorded the Brahms Violin Concerto with Szeryng and Sibelius's 2nd Symphony ...

http://images.cch.kcl.ac.uk/charm/liv/pubs/DeccaComplete.pdf

The Leinsdorf "Walkure" also referred to above is detailed further down on pages 283/4.

[Pulcinella]

‘RCA's 1958 stereo -- engineered by Decca's Kenneth Wilkinson -- is very good, apart from that irksome distortion on the final chords, which leads one to speculate as to why this wasn't remedied.’

Thanks McK - I had begun to think it was just me! It’s the same on a number of different editions and I’ve tried other sources (downloads) to no avail. Annoying but it doesn’t entirely spoil it - one of those ‘if only’ moments!

Check your inbox.
Partner and I listened to the version I have yesterday (loud, on my main system) and neither of us heard anything that we'd describe as distortion at the end.

[Pianoman]

I’ve just listened to the Monteux on cd through good quality headphones and was aware right at the end of what I would call ‘overload’ in the bass. In fact, there are little hints of it in a couple of earlier variations but definitely there in the final seconds. Mine is the Decca Classic Sound issue with Karajan's Planets. Didn’t spoil my enjoyment of what is a great performance but it is there to my ears. Just my 10 penneth..

[Pulcinella]

I’ve just listened to the Monteux on cd through good quality headphones and was aware right at the end of what I would call ‘overload’ in the bass. In fact, there are little hints of it in a couple of earlier variations but definitely there in the final seconds. Mine is the Decca Classic Sound issue with Karajan's Planets. Didn’t spoil my enjoyment of what is a great performance but it is there to my ears. Just my 10 penneth..

I suspect that our over-60yo ears are not so sensitive.
Not sure if in this case that should be a sadface or a smiley/winkeye emoticon!
Might listen again at some point through better quality (Sennheiser HD 202) headphones, but can't find my adapter right now!

[pastoralguy]

Oddly enough, I came across the BBC Monteux disc this morning in a second hand book shop. Alas, it's one of those shops
that obviously uses Amazon as their price guide so it was retailing for £10! Mind you, I could have bought a Naxos guitar cd for £6. It's been a long time since I was in that shop and their stock of classical CDs hasn't changed. I wonder why!