BaL 4.01.20 - Elgar: Enigma Variations

[Pulcinella]

Didn’t listen to the broadcast but it’s pleasing to hear Monteux rated. I’d only known it for a few years and was seduced on first hearing, he simply seems to get on with it.
My only gripe is the distortion right at the end - I’ve been through numerous iterations (Original Decca, Eloquence and download and they all seem to have it).
Never mind - Del Mar is a pretty fantastic substitute at any time.

Sounds like I didn't miss much!
The LSO/Monteux is on my iPod, so might just get an airing on tonight's flight back from Melbourne.

You probably have better hearing than me, and ordinary headphones do not make the best listening experience, but I didn't notice any distortion.
I guess all Eloquence manifestations are the same?
Mine is a 1999 compilation, coupled with Sibelius 2.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sibelius-Symphony-Enigma-Variations-Monteux/dp/B00G7TN56Y/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=Monteux+sibelius+elgar&qid=1578205224&sr=8-5

No details at all about any processing, just date 1961 given for the Elgar and 1960 for the Sibelius.

[Goon525]

This report in today’s Times may provide an explanation of BaL’s dumbing down:-


As we all know, of course, BBC broadcasters who breezily assume that listeners are as clever as they are can be extremely irritating.

Radio 3 bosses are stamping down on this audience gripe by imposing an effective ban on what they call “presumptuous phrases”. The guidance instructs presenters and guests on documentary programmes to avoid terms such as “of course”, “as we all know” and “we all presume that”.

The phrase “and so forth”, used as cover by experts who have run out of steam, is similarly forbidden.

Producers have been told to prevent presenters lapsing into radio cliché while reporting on location. Hosts should no longer begin segments with the words “I’m standing in the . . .”, as local sounds burble in the background.

Commissioning briefs seen by The Times reveal how Radio 3 managers are seeking to make programmes more accessible to younger listeners. Nearly half of the station’s two million weekly listeners are over 65.

The guidance makes clear that Sunday Feature, Radio 3’s weekly documentary series, is aimed at a “general arts audience” and must not presume audience knowledge. The programme has built a reputation for heavyweight documentaries on figures such as Richard Wagner and Albert Camus but is now looking for pitches on contemporary preoccupations such as “technology, Asia and identity politics”.

Ideally, presenters should not be experts. “They should feel like they are sharing their experience, offering their enthusiasms and recommendations but not lecturing,” the brief states. Producers have also been asked for simpler titles, as shows are repurposed for podcasts on the BBC Sounds app.

A Radio 3 spokeswoman said: “We’re always looking for different ways to welcome as many people as possible to the high-quality arts and classical programming. You don’t need to be an expert to tune in.”

[vinteuil]

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... also worth reading in today's Times is Libby Purves's piece "BBC listeners are turned off by matey presenters", from which :

"what is missing on Radio 4 and increasingly on 3 is a warning against cosiness and put-on larkiness: a desire to be not just a knowledgeable person but a mate, a factoids-DJ. The listening ear curdles at the perma-smile in a voice, the compassionate female cooing or blokey “fancy thats!”. Tell you a secret, Lord Hall: 16 to 24-year-olds hate that too. They’ve had years of teachers being matey... "

[LMcD]

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... also worth reading in today's Times is Libby Purves's piece "BBC listeners are turned off by matey presenters", from which :

"what is missing on Radio 4 and increasingly on 3 is a warning against cosiness and put-on larkiness: a desire to be not just a knowledgeable person but a mate, a factoids-DJ. The listening ear curdles at the perma-smile in a voice, the compassionate female cooing or blokey “fancy thats!”. Tell you a secret, Lord Hall: 16 to 24-year-olds hate that too. They’ve had years of teachers being matey... "

It's a very short step from 'matey' to 'patronising', especially when the self-appointed new 'mate' is an organization that is regularly referred to (and not just by older viewers and listeners) as 'Auntie'. This approach also leads to laughable exaggerations - I can still recall, with a shudder, Tom Service's introduction to what he promised BBC 4 viewers was going to be 'a wild night at the Proms'.

[Cockney Sparrow]

They really do takes us for mugs, with their trite mateyness rather than explaining factual matters to educate and inform (not just entertain).

One thing I can't abide is the continuity announcers little "informed" comments about the events in that episode of The Archers, or a small pointer to the next (yes, in our kitchen at clearing up time, we listen). For a year or two now, the continuity presenter has made these comments, as though we believe they have a) listened and b) are interested in the plot lines etc - all of the presenters. Just one example of the insults to our intelligence - to add to the many noted in the morning R3 programme threads.

We are going backwards - ignorance is the aim - "I'm a numpty on this matter - let's all be numpties together".

OTOH I have noticed many a time (yes, the programmes is often on in our house) the scorn with which Jane Garvey introduces the serial at the end of the main content - when the theme of the serial bears little relation to the ethos of Woman's hour.

[Nick Armstrong]

It was indeed a grating and tiresome BaL in presentational terms. Who thinks that dippy, middle-class gigglesome is the way to go for Record Review? .... what a cringeworthy listen it was.

Now so pointless - such a pity.

As a BaL listener since 1972, I feel as though I've lost an old friend - killed off by the deaf ears of Producer's (or Management's) Curse

Agreed Hopeless.

Apart from the general random shallowness, one thing struck me as highlighting the slack-brained approach these days. Reviewer points out 3 LPO recordings during a short period (Barenboim, Handley & Haitink) as indicating differences of interpretation with the same players. This could be interesting, I think. Hopes dashed. No time for Haitink (itself part of the time-wasting chat format). And completely different extracts chosen for Barenboim and Handley, so no opportunity at all to hear any performance comparison

Plus at one point, I found myself thinking ‘I’m switching off if this woman says “fantastic” again’

It was pathetic. I was thinking about sending a link / recording of the BAL to French friends who took their teenage sons to a performance of Enigma Variations in the Paris Philharmonie just before Christmas - they all loved it, and I thought it would be a good way for them to build on that experience. Not going to though, pointless to send this embarrassing mess.

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No one here has I think commented on a performance I rate very highly, indeed the one I currently go to first: Oramo with the CBSO (the ‘filler’ to their slightly forgettable Gerontius). Terrific, I think. Going to give it a defiant listen today

[mikealdren]

In theory, it obviously makes sense for the BBC to try to attract younger listeners and viewers, as otherwise it will eventually end up with none .

Sadly this is what the BBC think too however many of the best programmes on the BBC have always been aimed at older listeners and long may it last. You don't change them to aim at younger listeners, you just wait for youngsters to grow older. As we are an ageing population, the problem will sort itself. By all means give youngsters their own programmes but don't steal ours.

[visualnickmos]

Sadly this is what the BBC think too however many of the best programmes on the BBC have always been aimed at older listeners and long may it last. You don't change them to aim at younger listeners, you just wait for youngsters to grow older. As we are an ageing population, the problem will sort itself. By all means give youngsters their own programmes but don't steal ours.

I see what you're saying, very clearly, but I would say that if the programming was aimed at producing quality broadcasts, they would, and should have 'across the entire spectrum' appeal - young, old, etc, etc,
However, that ship has well and truly sailed.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I see what you're saying, very clearly, but I would say that if the programming was aimed at producing quality broadcasts, they would, and should have 'across the entire spectrum' appeal - young, old, etc, etc,
However, that ship has well and truly sailed.

I would suggest that the ship has been deliberately sunk.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Sadly this is what the BBC think too however many of the best programmes on the BBC have always been aimed at older listeners and long may it last. You don't change them to aim at younger listeners, you just wait for youngsters to grow older. As we are an ageing population, the problem will sort itself. By all means give youngsters their own programmes but don't steal ours.

Treating young people like imbeciles never works. They don’t want to be patronised by ageing hippies any more that we do.

[LMcD]

Sadly this is what the BBC think too however many of the best programmes on the BBC have always been aimed at older listeners and long may it last. You don't change them to aim at younger listeners, you just wait for youngsters to grow older. As we are an ageing population, the problem will sort itself. By all means give youngsters their own programmes but don't steal ours.

That may have worked in the old days, but the countless opportunities now open to everybody, but especially the young, to access anything and everything instantly means that they will be lost to traditional broadcasters as we oldies progressively drop off our perches while they look elsewhere. Younger potential audiences don't need to wait to grow old, and most of them very probably won't, and those that discover and develop an interest in classical music won't need to rely on the BBC or other traditional broadcasters to pursue their new interests.

[akiralx]

No one here has I think commented on a performance I rate very highly, indeed the one I currently go to first: Oramo with the CBSO (the ‘filler’ to their slightly forgettable Gerontius). Terrific, I think. Going to give it a defiant listen today

Yes, I listen to this Oramo one a lot, as well as Solti II (VPO, late in his career - I find it very fresh with lots of pleasing details), Rattle and Jochum.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

That may have worked in the old days, but the countless opportunities now open to everybody, but especially the young, to access anything and everything instantly means that they will be lost to traditional broadcasters as we oldies progressively drop off our perches while they look elsewhere. Younger potential audiences don't need to wait to grow old, and most of them very probably won't, and those that discover and develop an interest in classical music won't need to rely on the BBC or other traditional broadcasters to pursue their new interests.

I presume (and hope) that you mean "won't wait", rather than "won't grow old", LMcD?!

I think you're right - a lot of what we witness about BBC management decisions are a panicked response to alternative "broadcasting" services that the Corporation hadn't foreseen, prepared for, and doesn't know how to respond to.

And, as you rightly point out, it's not exclusively "The Young" who are turning to alternative sources to fulfil their cultural needs - precisely because the Beeb has alienated so many of what should be their core audience, even "The Old(er)" are finding what they want elsewhere.

[LMcD]

I presume (and hope) that you mean "won't wait", rather than "won't grow old", LMcD?!

I think you're right - a lot of what we witness about BBC management decisions are a panicked response to alternative "broadcasting" services that the Corporation hadn't foreseen, prepared for, and doesn't know how to respond to.

And, as you rightly point out, it's not exclusively "The Young" who are turning to alternative sources to fulfil their cultural needs - precisely because the Beeb has alienated so many of what should be their core audience, even "The Old(er)" are finding what they want elsewhere.

Your presumption and hope are both correct
For some time now, Forumistas have helpfully been flagging up alternative platforms based in Finland and elsewhere.
A timely reminder yesterday from the Wigmore Hall that Stephen Hough and the Castalian String Quartet could be seen live, or later at my convenience, in works by Brahms and Frühling. The latter features just once in the BBC Genome, having been broadcast in 2006.

[BBMmk2]

Time not to listen to BaL?