BaL 23.11.19 - Haydn: Symphony no. 102

[richardfinegold]

I've been comparing and contrasting two much admired recordings - trad Concertgebouw/Davis and HIPP Minkowski - and discover that it's in the following symphony 103, the Drumroll, that the contrast is so striking, right from the first bar.

What a pleasure this week is turning into.

I only have Brueggen and Fisher. I have been listening primarily Strum and Drang works in the past few years. In general this piece doesn’t impress me as more than generic late Haydn.

[Goon525]

I only have Brueggen and Fisher. I have been listening primarily Strum and Drang works in the past few years. In general this piece doesn’t impress me as more than generic late Haydn.

Whereas for some of us it is the very finest of the Haydn symphonies.

[jayne lee wilson]

HAYDN 102….back-to-back….
HEIDELBERG SINFONIKER/THOMAS FEY......RCOA/HARNONCOURT...
(Hanssler on Qobuz-S/Teldec CD)

High pace and hard punches, precision virtuosity, slashing accents, agogic pause and exaggerated rit-ar-dan-do at the sectional end, Fey’s reading of the outer movements is a thrill-ride of joy and humour spilling over into infectious exhilaration and hilarity.
But the adagio is breath-catching: so purely-voiced, an affectionate plainchant, yet with real tension and urgency into the climax……
The Minuet is startlingly zippy ("he can't get away with this!" "oh yes I can"..says the mischievous Fey-Hobbit, and he does...). It will whisk your off your feet if you try to dance to it, leave you dizzy on the floor - but the trio sings, sweet and soulful.

So not a trace of routine or overfamiliarity here….taking contrast to extremes, Fey and the Heidelberg SO at their characteristically original and riveting best. Keeping Haydn alive!

***
…Which can make Harnoncourt with the RCOA seem surprisingly safe, even rather MOR, without obvious underlining or exaggeration of dynamics, phrase or tempi. The adagio is gracious, smoothly cantabile, the climax perhaps a shade understated.
But of course it is a classic reading: played with clear, transparent articulation, tonal beauty and poise, everything in its place, and beautifully recorded with a fresh, spacious resonance. At times it can feel like a keener-heard, sharper-voiced update of Colin Davis in the same locale.
I found it less compelling to listen to though, especially on repeated hearings, whereas Fey’s more dramatic, very contrasted approach didn’t pall - the more I heard it, the more I loved it: it’s a lotta fun!

And if Haydn isn't fun, the grey skies blot out the sun.......

[jayne lee wilson]

HAYDN 102....back-to-back...
LPB/KUIJKEN.....SWR/NORRINGTON

La Petite Bande with Kuijken (Japanese DHM/JVC CD remaster) actually sounds quite substantial, not-so-petite with a sonorous string complement, powerful timps and full, blended brass. ….

I expected - tonal purity, fresh and clear articulation, a zestful lively approach; I wasn’t expecting such drama and excitement! With “never a boast or a see-here” (thanks again Basil B), this is a performance without mannerism or exaggeration; one which just seems to play the music, offer it to your ear and heart, thrillingly tangible, about as completely expressed as one could imagine. With a sharp lean cutting-edge attack on note and rhythm, but a full, weighty response in brass, drum & bass into tuttis and climaxes.
It’s full of subtleties, it soars and it sings, but the sense of joy seems to come from the sheer physical love and involvement of instrumental playing in itself, not conductor-shaped or imposed.
Easily a top recommendation, and if you could somehow restrict yourself to just one, this would be a good one to have.

After which, Norrington with the SWR (CD) in HIPPS-moderne mode sounds distinctively warmer, relaxed, bouncy and often genial; but with big dynamic brass-led swells into climaxes to enliven things. There’s more characterisation of mood here, seductively grazioso and cantabile; the very flowing adagio has really urgent climactic passages.
It’s a lovely, often charming, laid-back live one-off… but finally…. just a shade too relaxed for me.

So in this one-to-one game it has to be Kuijken’s sharper-defined sounds and energies (on a gorgeous, spacious JVC-K2 24/94 CD remaster, livelier and more present than the original CD/Qobuz stream); it is very special; hard to fault; as if all the clearest finest streams of baroque and classical find their confluence within it.
Who needs “mood” or “characterisation”: when music qua music sounds as good as this?

[jayne lee wilson]

Anyone up for a Colin Davis/Bernstein head-to-head? Come on now, be brave!

[visualnickmos]

Anyone up for a Colin Davis/Bernstein head-to-head? Come on now, be brave!

A great idea to herald my return to these hallowed forums !

How do you envisage this commencing ?

[cloughie]

Or even Beecham v Solti!

[jayne lee wilson]

A great idea to herald my return to these hallowed forums !

How do you envisage this commencing ?

For the template see above....

[LMcD]

Rieu v Klemperer?

[BBMmk2]

I have Sir Colin Davis and Claudio Abbado, as part of a set. I think I’ll still be ok with these after the BaL.

[jayne lee wilson]

I have Sir Colin Davis and Claudio Abbado, as part of a set. I think I’ll still be ok with these after the BaL.

Do try to hear the Heidelberg/Thomas Fey if you can. Gone back to it often this week, it is very special! So witty, expressive, surprising and characterful... the winds are a joy throughout - if you want a quick sample, listen to their interjections in the finale...

[jayne lee wilson]

BACK TO BACK….
Musiciens du Louvre/Minkowski……Orch.18th C/Bruggen

I returned briefly (I wasn’t tempted to linger, I’m afraid…) to Minkowski (Naive 24/44.1 download) - rather dull, I felt, with dutiful rather than colourful or characterful winds. He drives the music hard, banging about with stiff rhythms and a lack of tonal or rhythmic refinements: not much aural hedonism here. (I often have the same problem with his all-too-worthy Schubert. Not terrible, but…)
Just compare Fey to Minkowski in the finale: the Heidelberg winds keep jumping out at you, little jack-in-the-boxes with subtle quips and asides, and Fey’s phrase and rubato are full of witty pleasures, kittenishly playful. “Indulgent”? Not for me, not at all….
Minkowski just plays it, dead straight, tonally monochrome, so the winds play their notes, not a smile in sight. (Kuijken might be said to offer an “objective” reading too, but with so many telling subtleties of phrase and rhythm, how much more involved and involving it all is!)

Set in the vast resonant spaces of the Vredenburg, Bruggen’s 102 with the Oot18thC (Philips CD) can seem less than ideally immediate; but the acoustic effect is pleasingly atmospheric in itself, and this characteristically understated, lyrical yet lively and pacy performance does grow on you - subtler and more varied in its expressions than may first appear. The light, fluid rhythms and textures and hushed pps are nicely contrasted with weighty, almost Beethovenian tuttis.
One of Bruggen’s earlier Haydn tapings, whilst very enjoyable, it doesn’t quite show him at his best; perhaps those lovable, orchestrally-blended Bruggenisms are less favourably observed at an acoustic distance. Better heard on the later Paris set, and the OAE in the Sturm und Drang …but I like returning to this 102 - there’s just “something about it”…. that sense of poetry and intensity just below the surface that Bruggen so often brings out in the sound itself.

[Barbirollians]

BACK TO BACK….
Musiciens du Louvre/Minkowski……Orch.18th C/Bruggen

I returned briefly (I wasn’t tempted to linger, I’m afraid…) to Minkowski (Naive 24/44.1 download) - rather dull, I felt, with dutiful rather than colourful or characterful winds. He drives the music hard, banging about with stiff rhythms and a lack of tonal or rhythmic refinements: not much aural hedonism here. (I often have the same problem with his all-too-worthy Schubert. Not terrible, but…)
Just compare Fey to Minkowski in the finale: the Heidelberg winds keep jumping out at you, little jack-in-the-boxes with subtle quips and asides, and Fey’s phrase and rubato are full of witty pleasures, kittenishly playful. “Indulgent”? Not for me, not at all….
Minkowski just plays it, dead straight, tonally monochrome, so the winds play their notes, not a smile in sight. (Kuijken might be said to offer an “objective” reading too, but with so many telling subtleties of phrase and rhythm, how much more involved and involving it all is!)

Set in the vast resonant spaces of the Vredenburg, Bruggen’s 102 with the Oot18thC (Philips CD) can seem less than ideally immediate; but the acoustic effect is pleasingly atmospheric in itself, and this characteristically understated, lyrical yet lively and pacy performance does grow on you - subtler and more varied in its expressions than may first appear. The light, fluid rhythms and textures and hushed pps are nicely contrasted with weighty, almost Beethovenian tuttis.
One of Bruggen’s earlier Haydn tapings, whilst very enjoyable, it doesn’t quite show him at his best; perhaps those lovable, orchestrally-blended Bruggenisms are less favourably observed at an acoustic distance. Better heard on the later Paris set, and the OAE in the Sturm und Drang …but I like returning to this 102 - there’s just “something about it”…. that sense of poetry and intensity just below the surface that Bruggen so often brings out in the sound itself.

Amazed to find that I only have Rattle on CD - I have always listened to Davis on LP . I had Beecham on cassette once I recall.

Time to listen the Rattle again - I think he is a very good Haydn conductor.

[Alison]

Or even Beecham v Solti!

I do like the Solti, no hanging around in the first movement!

[Maclintick]

.

... perhaps to add to Alpie's excellent list (for which many many thanks) - Günther Herbig :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000084I3Y

I like Kuijken, Minkowski, Brüggen, Harnoncourt, Goodman, Fey, Abbado, both Norringtons - among others

,

I haven't heard that number of versions, Vints, but La Petite Bande/Kuijken will take a lot of beating on all counts (see JLW's post) -- unless one is HIPP-averse, of course. My go-to used to be Concertgebouw/Davis, but I'm now converted to period-instrument timbres.
Heidelberg /Fey is essential listening for its sheer joyousness, although IMHO the standard of instrumental playing at top-speed falls fractionally below the best.