BaL 19.10.19 - Verdi: La Traviata

[MrGongGong]

Picking up on the thread about game music
I think we need to be very aware that this opera encourages excessive consumption of alcohol
many people suffer as a result of this

BE WARNED





(i'm off to the pub )

[Barbirollians]

I have the Carlos Kleiber the Solti/Gheorghui which in 1995 BBC 2 cleared the schedules to show from the ROH one evening - can you imagine that happening in a million years nowadays - and the two live Callas versions with Giulini and Ghione . Not sure if I need any more.

[mikealdren]

It was Roger Parker’s first choice back in 2007 with Giulini’s 1955 live Milan version as historic choice. And back in 1998 Michael Oliver chose Muti. I have a feeling it’ll be Rizzi this time because BaL always seems to choose Netrebko these days.

I wonder whether Kleiber, Muti and Giulini will get a mention in these days of short, short lists, I suspect at least one of them will be ignored.

[Master Jacques]

Quite. We shouldn’t pigeon-hole people on the grounds that they are known for one particular skill.

I'm not so sure. Would you hire a brain surgeon to rewire your house? Hiring a harpsichordist to make recommendations on Verdi seems equally reckless. Doubtless he's got "notions" about it, just as Simon Rattle would have notions about who should captain England at football.

Celebrity doesn't make those sort of notions either soundly based or illuminating.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm not so sure. Would you hire a brain surgeon to rewire your house? Hiring a harpsichordist to make recommendations on Verdi seems equally reckless. Doubtless he's got "notions" about it, just as Simon Rattle would have notions about who should captain England at football.

Celebrity doesn't make those sort of notions either soundly based or illuminating.

I think many musicians have a broader knowledge and outlook than you are suggesting.

[underthecountertenor]

I think many musicians have a broader knowledge and outlook than you are suggesting.

Quite.

Master Jacques's suggested comparisons are, to quote him, neither soundly based nor illuminating.

I suspect that Mr Esfahani has a far deeper knowledge of La Traviata, and Italian opera generally, than some are giving him credit for here. I would suggest that he be given a chance (and rather hope against hope that Mr McGregor keeps his interventions to a minimum on this occasion).

Though I would add that I too miss Rodney Milnes. His reviews, both on radio and in print, were always sheer delight.

[CallMePaul]

Bayerisches Staatsorchester, Bavarian State Opera Chorus, Chor der Bayerischen Staatsoper München, Carlos Kleiber (with Cotrubas, Domingo, Milne)

I have seen this recently only coupled with a BluRay Audio disc, thus upping the price substantially. For most people, myself included, this is a waste of money as we do not have the equipment to play the BluRay disc. A pity as this is the version that most appeals to me (I do not have a recording and it is very many years since I saw it, in the days when Opera North was still English National Opera North) but the unwanted, expensive extra puts me off.

[Bryn]

I have seen this recently only coupled with a BluRay Audio disc, thus upping the price substantially. For most people, myself included, this is a waste of money as we do not have the equipment to play the BluRay disc. A pity as this is the version that most appeals to me (I do not have a recording and it is very many years since I saw it, in the days when Opera North was still English National Opera North) but the unwanted, expensive extra puts me off.

What a pity I am not that fond of La Traviata, otherwise I might have suggested going halves with you in return for the Blu-ray.

[Master Jacques]

Quite. Master Jacques's suggested comparisons are, to quote him, neither soundly based nor illuminating.

Touché! Though I suspect that in practice you'd rather have an expert do a job for you, than an amateur enthusiast, which is all Mr Esfahani can possibly be in this field. Though of course he might have played Handel continuo parts, hidden in the pit, at some point.

I suspect that Mr Esfahani has a far deeper knowledge of La Traviata, and Italian opera generally, than some are giving him credit for here. I would suggest that he be given a chance (and rather hope against hope that Mr McGregor keeps his interventions to a minimum on this occasion).

I hope that your suspicions (for that's all they are) may be proved correct, and mine unfounded. Everyone deserves a chance: though this sort of celebrity chance seems to me rather to equate with ENO's decision to give inexperienced reviewers house seats - anybody, in preference to the dreaded "experts", who might know what they're talking about!

Though I would add that I too miss Rodney Milnes. His reviews, both on radio and in print, were always sheer delight.

Hear, hear! Though I fear today, like so many literate, witty and knowledgeable critics, his expertise would prove a bar to his inclusion in the new-style formats of Record Review.

[doversoul1]

Touché! Though I suspect that in practice you'd rather have an expert do a job for you, than an amateur enthusiast, which is all Mr Esfahani can possibly be in this field. Though of course he might have played Handel continuo parts, hidden in the pit, at some point.

I hope that your suspicions (for that's all they are) may be proved correct, and mine unfounded. Everyone deserves a chance: though this sort of celebrity chance seems to me rather to equate with ENO's decision to give inexperienced reviewers house seats - anybody, in preference to the dreaded "experts", who might know what they're talking about!

Hear, hear! Though I fear today, like so many literate, witty and knowledgeable critics, his expertise would prove a bar to his inclusion in the new-style formats of Record Review.

What is you base of this statement? I thought this programme was anything but a work of an amateur enthusiast of the subject matter (no, this is not about Verdi).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b2jhhj

Unlike many young celebrities Radio 3 seems to be interested in lately, Esfahani spent several years after completing New Generation Artist scheme keeping his head down so to speak before recording his first CD which was CPE Bach’s Württemberg Sonatas; hardly a potential best seller.

Of course these facts do not prove that he is an expert on Verdi but I very much doubt that Esfahani would have jumped into something only because he thought it as a chance to advance his celebrity status. Also, he is not so deeply imbued (is this the right word?) in British culture of being over-polite which may help to override the host’s ‘help’.

[Master Jacques]

What is you base of this statement? I thought this programme was anything but a work of an amateur enthusiast of the subject matter (no, this is not about Verdi).

That programme, doversoul1, is not about opera, let alone Verdi, as far as I can see. Unless we believe that any musician is qualified to talk about any aspect of music (or theatre, or music theatre), he seems a very peculiar choice of "expert" in this particular field. His celebrity status here is very great, and - like many Americans - he is absolutely brilliant at taking opportunities to raise it ever higher. He might well see this as one of those wacky, left-field appearances for which he's famous. A Bach expert descanting on Verdi? How amusing!

Actually I think this pinpoints is one of the problems with that tricky phrase, "classical music", as applied to about 100 different disciplines, but that's another thread...

I am clearly in the minority in being sceptical and sour about the reasons for R3's choice in this matter. So shall we leave it there, please, until he's actually been heard bantering with AMcG on the subject of La traviata? It's only an opera, after all - not a serious art work,so anything goes!

[doversoul1]

That programme, doversoul1, is not about opera, let alone Verdi, as far as I can see. Unless we believe that any musician is qualified to talk about any aspect of music (or theatre, or music theatre), he seems a very peculiar choice of "expert" in this particular field. His celebrity status here is very great, and - like many Americans - he is absolutely brilliant at taking opportunities to raise it ever higher. He might well see this as one of those wacky, left-field appearances for which he's famous. A Bach expert descanting on Verdi? How amusing!

Actually I think this pinpoints is one of the problems with that tricky phrase, "classical music", as applied to about 100 different disciplines, but that's another thread...

I am clearly in the minority in being sceptical and sour about the reasons for R3's choice in this matter. So shall we leave it there, please, until he's actually been heard bantering with AMcG on the subject of La traviata? It's only an opera, after all - not a serious art work,so anything goes!

OK. We’ll leave it here. Comes to think if it, there is really no point in going on about the presenter before we hear his programme. I see we clearly stand in very different places but that’s what makes the forum and life interesting. Good listening.

[Master Jacques]

OK. We’ll leave it here. Comes to think if it, there is really no point in going on about the presenter before we hear his programme. I see we clearly stand in very different places but that’s what makes the forum and life interesting. Good listening.

That's the main thing, doversoul1!

[Ein Heldenleben]

I think Mr Esfahani is doing a very good job and has a very engaging radio presence though my thoughts are probably coloured by recent sorting events in Japan....

[underthecountertenor]

I think Mr Esfahani is doing a very good job and has a very engaging radio presence though my thoughts are probably coloured by recent sorting events in Japan....

My suspicions (supra) have been proved correct I think. I hope that Master Jacques agrees. A model BaL, allowing for the twofer format (Mr McGregor sometimes being reduced to repeating what Mr Esfahani had already said).