BaL 5.10.19 - Strauss: Ein Heldenleben

[BrianWilks]

Do we know who the reviewer was on that occasion, as a matter of interest?

This is from the 'old' good old days and was an 'Interpretations On Record' programme, rather than BaL. Unfortunately the listing doesn't mention who won the gold medal but I wonder if it could have been this one that gave HvK the plaudit? - in which case Michael Kennedy is the man. https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/radio3/1986-05-26

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

'twas Geoffrey Smith on 5th Feb 2000 who gave Karajan's 1985 recording the laurels:

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/radio4/transcripts/BAL_1999-2015.pdf

(scroll down to the first item on page 17)

[BBMmk2]

Jansons/BRSO but you can disagree!

Oh brilliant! I have my listening sorted then. I’ll also be playing his new recording of Shosta’s S7!

[CallMePaul]

Jansons/BRSO but you can disagree!

I much preferred the Solti and was not keen on the Jansons. If you still have a decently-stocked HMV in your area you should be able to find the Solti (coupled with other tone poems) for £5.99, half of Presto's price!

[Barbirollians]

If only one of our number could arrange to have it out with the Controller face-to-face, and forcibly convey the general feeling to him direct...

Didn't the late Chris Newman - complain about something to do with radio 3 to radio 4 Feedback and ended up on the programme ?

[Maclintick]

I much preferred the Solti and was not keen on the Jansons. If you still have a decently-stocked HMV in your area you should be able to find the Solti (coupled with other tone poems) for £5.99, half of Presto's price!

Thanks, CMP -- VPO/Solti impressed in an exceptional field. Fair dos to the much-criticised TS for bringing Strauss's own 1941 recording to our collective attention. Kempe, Reiner, Beecham are all admirable, of course, with Reiner perhaps especially authoritative from his close association with the composer, & in unbelievably good sound for 1954. It's a shame that JB's interpretation wasn't captured in his prime, and in HMV's best 60s stereo. When ASD 2613 was issued in 1970 I saved up the requisite 38 shillings -- equivalent to approx £25 today ! -- & wasn't really troubled by what now strikes me as an excessively leisurely tempo, a stoical trot as opposed to Reiner's resolute canter, for the likely reason that LSO/JB was my introduction to the piece.

On reflection, I'm now unsure of whether Jansons adds an extra trumpet Bb to the passage I identified in #114, since Bb & Eb clarinets in unison "hervortretend" could sound extremely piercing & trumpet-like on that high Bb....Hmm

[Master Jacques]

On reflection, I'm now unsure of whether Jansons adds an extra trumpet Bb to the passage I identified in #114, since Bb & Eb clarinets in unison "hervortretend" could sound extremely piercing & trumpet-like on that high Bb....Hmm

I'm sure you are correct. Why would Jansons be adding a trumpet for half a bar, when not only clarinets but also flutes are shrieking out that high Bb, at Fig 37+2. Lazy Tom Service for not checking this out before casting nasturtiums! I don't think Jansons is known for that sort of tinkering, either.

[edashtav]

I have a very early, maybe even a first edition (can't find a date anywhere!), of the miniature score and it is as shown here.

I have an original edition: FEC Leuckart, copyright 1899 #5200 (quarter bound in leather) which is consistent with your score and Mac's. I do warm to the idea that the trumpet line heard on the Jansons is false and, in reality, emanated from the high, screaming clarinets plus flutes.

It's good to note at the top of the title page that R.S. dedicated his tone poem to Wilhelm Mengelberg und dem Concertgebouw Orchester in Amsterdam.

That Tom Service used RS and WM recordings as historic yardsticks to measure more modern versions seems no more than 'going back to basics'.

My score was used at the fp of the work in GB
Its owner noted on the flyleaf, in pencil:

First performance in London took place on Sat. afternoon Dec.6th, 1902 at the Queen's Hall conducted by Strauss himself; at the same concert Mme. Teresa Careno played Tchaikovsky's Pf. concerto in Bb, conducted by Henry Wood - his first performance after an illness.

Looking at an advertisement for the Concert, I have discovered that Strauss brought a soloist with him ( Herr Zimmermann) for the Concertante solo part rather than trust the Queen's Orchestra leader: Arthur Payne.

[mikealdren]

I listened yesterday having been away last weekend and I share the common view of the twofer format and Tom Service's delivery. Afterwards, I listened again to the BaL on Sibelius 7. The format and Stephen Johnson's considered presentation were worlds apart from the Heldenleben review and the dramatic contrast emphasised what we have been missing recently.

[Maclintick]

I have an original edition: FEC Leuckart, copyright 1899 #5200 (quarter bound in leather) which is consistent with your score and Mac's. I do warm to the idea that the trumpet line heard on the Jansons is false and, in reality, emanated from the high, screaming clarinets plus flutes.

It's good to note at the top of the title page that R.S. dedicated his tone poem to Wilhelm Mengelberg und dem Concertgebouw Orchester in Amsterdam.

That Tom Service used RS and WM recordings as historic yardsticks to measure more modern versions seems no more than 'going back to basics'.

My score was used at the fp of the work in GB
Its owner noted on the flyleaf, in pencil:

First performance in London took place on Sat. afternoon Dec.6th, 1902 at the Queen's Hall conducted by Strauss himself; at the same concert Mme. Teresa Careno played Tchaikovsky's Pf. concerto in Bb, conducted by Henry Wood - his first performance after an illness.

Looking at an advertisement for the Concert, I have discovered that Strauss brought a soloist with him ( Herr Zimmermann) for the Concertante solo part rather than trust the Queen's Orchestra leader: Arthur Payne.

Wow, Ed ! What a treasurable possession. Handling that score must generate a frisson of musical time-travelling -- an instant connection to late romanticism. Thanks for the historical sidelight on the first UK perf. One can appreciate Strauss's nervousness vis-à-vis the violin solo in the "Hero's Companion" section as this may well have overstretched the Queen's Hall Orchestra's leader, or, maybe equally likely in view of the paucity of rehearsal time in the days of Robert Newman & Henry Wood, to have been impossible to get under the belt within his busy schedule.

[Barbirollians]

Wow, Ed ! What a treasurable possession. Handling that score must generate a frisson of musical time-travelling -- an instant connection to late romanticism. Thanks for the historical sidelight on the first UK perf. One can appreciate Strauss's nervousness vis-à-vis the violin solo in the "Hero's Companion" section as this may well have overstretched the Queen's Hall Orchestra's leader, or, maybe equally likely in view of the paucity of rehearsal time in the days of Robert Newman & Henry Wood, to have been impossible to get under the belt within his busy schedule.

Or he may have feared the "deputy " system.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I’ve always regretted the lack of a Furtwängler performance. It’s just the king of of work WF would have excelled in.

[Maclintick]

Or he may have feared the "deputy " system.

Very possibly -- though much less likely in the case of the orchestra's leader than for a rank-and-file player. The deputy system was still in operation in 1902, though Wood & Newman famously banned deputies in 1904, leading Strauss to comment after the UK première of the "Symphonia Domestica" a year later "I cannot leave London without an expression of admiration for the splendid Orchestra which Henry Wood's master hand has created in such a short time."

[jch48]

The piece has for me one of the most recognisable 6 4 chords - just before the 'recapitulation'. i always look forward to that moment.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I think this thread is a good example of Heldenleben’s BAL law - the quality of the thread is in inverse proportion to that of the original review. As well as the 64 chord this is a great piece for
- lovers of the key of E flat ( ie pianists )
- flashy violin solos ( big fan me )
- bass heavy orchestration
- giving the big tune to the horns and celli
- organum

It appears that through inattention and my inability to read the notifications banner I missed out on the signal honour of posting EA ‘s recording list . Apologies for that but thanks as always to EA for his extraordinary diligence. I wonder if that honour will come around again...