BaL 5.10.19 - Strauss: Ein Heldenleben

[ardcarp]

Building A Library did in the 1980and 1990s play a big part in my getting to know music before I bought it - there of course being no You Tube , Spotify or the like then. You had to buy a record much of the time to see if you liked it or go to the public library which in my local town did at least provide me with my first exposure to ASD 655 .

What I liked about it as a teenager was listening to the different examples, erudite reviewers explaining why performances were different and why one was preferable to the other . I cannot imagine yesterday's gabblefest ( judging from the short extract I heard ) attracting anyone to the music.

The depressing thing about this change is that it seems to have taken place either to justify Mr McGregor's pay cheque or in light of This Classical Life . The latter programme is dreadful to my ears because for all Jess's enthusiasm the speaking over the music detracts from it . Also its self conscious trendiness I would have found a massive turn off as a quiet teenager .

It seems to me what would have been really daring would have been for the BBC to put it on Radio 1 or 6xtra. The demographic it seems to be trying to attract.

Perfectly put, if I may say so.

[Master Jacques]

What insightful responses to this BaL, across the board.

I agree with edashtav that there was something potentially worthwhile going on under the surface, for musically literate people who already knew the work in question. But the surface itself was appalling. For anyone new to Ein Heldenleben, all that tortuous gabbling was worse than useless.

The whole slot amounted to a demonstration for the unconverted, about how insular, fatuous and whacky "classical music" is, and I for one found it deeply embarrassing and counter-productive. It revealed how confused Radio 3 has become about what it is there to do, let alone for whom.

Something broke yesterday in Record Review, which I am not sure can ever be repaired.

[DracoM]

<< For anyone new to Ein Heldenleben, all that tortuous gabbling was worse than useless.>>

And that very succinctly put is at the heart of the frustration many will have felt.

If you already have some knowledge / experience of the piece, you can glean something even from a mess like that, BUT 'new to the piece'? Erm........?? So, surely, at whatever age, a listener new to the piece might well have been pretty baffled by what was going on. And if you are as yet young in the whole genre of classical music, I would guess even less able to get what was going on. If seasoned listeners were annoyed etc, then a new listener will have felt and probably not resisted the urge to dip out of what was rapidly turning into a grade A R3 disaster.

RR's been for a long time a go-to starter prog for many, as posters have warmly suggested from their own pasts, but that farrago would have deterred many.

You want to get, retain, enthuse new listeners? Well, that ain't how you do it, IMO.

[visualnickmos]

After following this thread, I just HAD to listen to the BaL on iPlayer, which I did this morning. And yes - what a mess it was! I don't need to go into detail, as I feel that most of us are singing from the same songsheet.

I think Barbirollians sums up perfectly my thoughts, too: if I may quote

"Building A Library did in the 1980 and 1990s play a big part in my getting to know music before I bought it - there of course being no You Tube , Spotify or the like then. You had to buy a record much of the time to see if you liked it or go to the public library which in my local town did at least provide me with my first exposure to ASD 655 .
What I liked about it as a teenager was listening to the different examples, erudite reviewers explaining why performances were different and why one was preferable to the other. I cannot imagine yesterday's gabblefest (judging from the short extract I heard) attracting anyone to the music."

[Lordgeous]

Do we know if anyone at the Beeb - or AMcG himself - reads this board???

[edashtav]

A couple of questions, ed:

Was your experience helped, or hindered, by the format and delivery?
Do you think the segment would have been better as a straight-to microphone, scripted piece? You've suggested Andrew was surplus to requirements.

I gritted my teeth and carried on, but it was an effort.

Apologies for my slow response, I've been busy discussing local history.
My answers:
Yes my enjoyment was hindered by the twofer format and by Tom's rapid-fire delivery.
I would love to hear the broadcast as a straightforward scripted piece to microphone.
Andrew was worse than superfluous as he was invasive and determined to push his alternative views.

However, no pain, no gain. I felt that the Doctor had diagnosed an infectious condition rampaging across conductors, and he demonstrated the value in making a clean break from that condition which took hold after Strauss's death. He performed a Service not only to BaL but to Musicology.

[DracoM]

Do we know if anyone at the Beeb - or AMcG himself - reads this board???

Rumour has it that at least one BBC operative did access. But it would only take one to alert others, methinks.
But after LAST week's ruffling of the reviewer's feathers, one might have expected a wee bit of humility and silence would not have gone amiss.
But, God must speak from Olympus, so.........?

[DracoM]

As for whether Deus in Machina AMcG looked.............noy see so far, a flash of light on the horizon and thundering rumbling from Olympus.

[Bryn]

Rumour has it that at least one BBC operative did access. But it would only take one to alert others, methinks.

I don't know how often, or indeed whether, he looks in, but Jonathan Swain remains a member, though he has not posted here for over 7 years.

[Pulcinella]

We could all contact the programme and give them this link in our message!

recordreview@bbc.co.uk

But of course we'll only get the standard reply about how much positive response there's been!

PS: I mean give the link to this thread:

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?20801-BaL-5-10-19-Strauss-Ein-Heldenleben

[richardfinegold]

When I was in my teens there was a show that was taped in New York called First Hearing. The format was a moderator (Martin Bookspan) and three panelists from the Music Industry. Excerpts from new releases would be played and then a discussion would ensue, and panelists would be allowed to play alternative recordings to illustrate their points.
This show was highly influential upon my development as a listener. It didn’t feel as though it was “dumped down” to my level but there was an absence of jargon. That show introduced me to many Composers and Works, and also made me aware of how interpretations could vary. The panelists always reminded me of a group of friends that could be spinning records in their living room. I found their enthusiasm for Music contagious.
Would such a show have impacted me if I was the stereotypical teen of today, texting away as I monitored Facebook and Instagram? Clearly the majority would not be interested. However, there are those that will always be attracted to a slower, less frenetic, and more thoughtful forms of entertainment. Hopefully shows with thoughtful content will survive the imperatives of marketersthat feel they must be “relevant “ to our times

[DracoM]

To which recordreview@bbc.co.uk I know several posters have indeed 'contributed their thoughts'.

[richardfinegold]

btw, I listened to the winner on Qobuz. It is a very decent performance, with a bit more schmaltz than I am used to, but not inappropriate for Richard Strauss. I really did get feeling of the Hero as a valiant knight swashbuckling his way through Life, more so than I get from Kempe (not the DVD which I haven’t seen, sorry LMP) or Reiner, while compared to those two recordings I felt the new entity came up a bit dry eyed in the closing pages. This is my favorite recording from the Conductor since his Oslo days

[LeMartinPecheur]

Apologies for my slow response, I've been busy discussing local history.
My answers:
Yes my enjoyment was hindered by the twofer format and by Tom's rapid-fire delivery.
I would love to hear the broadcast as a straightforward scripted piece to microphone.
Andrew was worse than superfluous as he was invasive and determined to push his alternative views.

However, no pain, no gain. I felt that the Doctor had diagnosed an infectious condition rampaging across conductors, and he demonstrated the value in making a clean break from that condition which took hold after Strauss's death. He performed a Service not only to BaL but to Musicology.

[cloughie]

I don't know how often, or indeed whether, he looks in, but Jonathan Swain remains a member, though he has not posted here for over 7 years.

I can remember him and Rob posting in the good old CD masters days.