BaL 18.02.12 - Bach Goldberg Variations

[amateur51]

I'm one of those relatively new to the Goldbergs -- I have never owned a recording -- and I found the programme most useful.

As I usually do. BaL is a very civilized corner of the broadcast media: a knowledgeable musician uses example extracts to draw attention to differences between the recordings -- differences I would probably not notice myself -- and then applies his or her own, necessarily individual, judgement.

I prefer those programmes where the reviewer plays extracts from only about 15 to 20 recordings, and therefore has time to play several extracts from each of the short list. This can enable me to realize that my taste differs, and that I would prefer a recording other than the first choice.

Yesterday, I would have liked to hear more of Maggie Cole's harpsichord recording. But no matter. I had plenty of opportunity to compare piano against harpsichord ... and to fail to come to a conclusion. I have ordered both Rousset and Schiff, and expect to be well satisfied.

The context for this is that, some months ago, I realized that I had a heap of recordings rather than a library: 78s, LPs, cassette tapes and CDs bought on a hit-or-miss basis over the years ... I have fewer than a third of the items in the Gramophone Guide's Recommended Basic Library. So I started buying an item each week, on CD or SACD. BaL is the most useful source I have found so far.

Later,

Dr Owl

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John Owlett, Southampton, UK

Welcome, Dr Owl!

[Bryn]

Rousset's recording appeared initially on Decca L’Oiseau-Lyre, as did the Partitas and Clavier-Übung II. That's the copy I have.

Ah ha. Don't buy the download. Amazon.de have a new reissue http://www.amazon.de/Goldberg-Variat...9643529&sr=1-1

EUR 4,97. Not to be missed.

Plus well over that in p&p to the UK, (total cost, £10.55 or €12.22).

A download of mp3s of the whole 4 CD set of Rousset's Bach recordings are on amazon.co.uk for £15.99. Just search of "Rousset Bach" (without the quote marks) on their site.

[HighlandDougie]

The download is £2 cheaper for the 4 disc set from Deutschegrammophon.com (although you have to remember to tick the "include Decca" box if you use the search facility and enter Christophe Rousset)

[Don Petter]

Plus well over that in p&p to the UK, (total cost, £10.55 or €12.22).

Mine cost £5.58, including p & p, though the 4CD download does sound a better bargain if you do want the lot.

[Nick Armstrong]

I'm one of those relatively new to the Goldbergs -- I have never owned a recording -- and I found the programme most useful.

As I usually do. BaL is a very civilized corner of the broadcast media: a knowledgeable musician uses example extracts to draw attention to differences between the recordings -- differences I would probably not notice myself -- and then applies his or her own, necessarily individual, judgement.


Later,

Dr Owl

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John Owlett, Southampton, UK

Dr O, great to read your post, and welcome Totally agree. Listening to BAL has been a fixture of my week since I got the collecting 'bug' in the early 80s

I caught up with the Goldbergs programme today. I thought it was very interesting and had a good range of comparative examples. I own both Goulds, and the Schiff (Decca) and Perahia versions (though neither of the latter can I find on my shelves .... victims I fear of the 'lending to friends' tendency covered on another thread - but I've no idea to whom )... I've always naturally gravitated to piano versions rather than harpsichord but it was fascinating to hear the range of instruments on offer in the latter category. I am sorely tempted by the Rousset in its new reissue version mentioned above (been listening to his Couperin / Handel lunchtime recital, R3 Friday - really good).

Among piano versions, the main thing to strike me was what a horrible recorded sound the interpretation by Joanna McGregor was given by the engineers Interesting that you can testify ammy to the technical skill of Ms McG concerning that 'spooky' transition back to the final Aria.

Like vinteuil, it was Perahia that appealed to me most, hence I'm cross my copy's disappeared! The evening when I was lucky enough to sit on the front row of the RFH with him playing the Goldbergs was a very special one, too

I shall probably listen to this BAL again - there's a lot in there, and very enjoyable and instructive it is.

Dr Owl, I hope your post-lurking visits here will be frequent and enjoyable!

[MickyD]

the decca Rousset was recorded in September 1994; sorry I don't have info on the oiseau-lyre recording.

I have the Rousset as part of his decca 4 CD set, which also includes the Partitas, Italian concerto, French overture,Chromatic fantasy and fugue - all excellent.


by the way, Christophe was born in 1961. So his "1966 recording" of the Goldbergs shows what a prodigy he must have been!

Let's hope we see a few more re-issues of the good things Rousset did for L'Oiseau Lyre - Royer, Le Roux, Forqueray, D'Anglebert etc.

[vinteuil]

Let's hope we see a few more re-issues of the good things Rousset did for L'Oiseau Lyre - Royer, Le Roux, Forqueray, D'Anglebert etc.

... all things, Micky, which I'm sure wise birds like thee and me picked up when they first came out!

[MickyD]

... all things, Micky, which I'm sure wise birds like thee and me picked up when they first came out!

Indeed, Vinteuil - I got to know the habits of those wielding the dreaded deletion axe. I figured that the more obscure the composer, the quicker it would go from the catalogue, so I would always snap them up quickly!

[Dave2002]

Plus well over that in p&p to the UK, (total cost, £10.55 or €12.22).

A download of mp3s of the whole 4 CD set of Rousset's Bach recordings are on amazon.co.uk for £15.99. Just search of "Rousset Bach" (without the quote marks) on their site.

Does MP3 work with harpsichords? I thought that poorly done it could lead to horrible results, though note my wording. Is it possible to do it well?

[Bryn]

Does MP3 work with harpsichords? I thought that poorly done it could lead to horrible results, though note my wording. Is it possible to do it well?

I think it rather depends upon how many data are thrown at the problem in a given time, Dave. I think mp2 struggles with reproducing the harpsichord well, even at Radio 3's 192kbps, but a 256kbps VBR mp3 (which is what I think Amazon aim at) might make a much better fist of it.

[ardcarp]

I suppose The Goldbergs are the supreme example of a piece one wants to play repeatedly. I certainly use them as a de-stresser, and it's the Hewitt vesrion I put on for the purpose. Glen Gould was my favourite as a youngster, but it is a little manic at times. Repeated listening to any performance tha is unduly mannered or quirky will quickly annoy. Angela H. has got it just right IMHO, and I never tire of her classic Goldbergs. And I've got a signed copy!

[Dr Owl]

In defence of András Schiff

(Thank you, everyone, for your welcome.)

“Let’s not forget we are talking about an hour and a quarter of music—hands on heart, can you listen to the harpsichord that long?” (András Schiff’s programme note to his 2001 recording of the Goldberg Variations)

“Well, I can,” said Owl. “The CDs arrived yesterday and I spent a chunk of the afternoon listening to Schiff 2001 and Rousset. On first listening, I think I even prefer the harpsichord to the piano.”

“Pardon?,” said Pooh. “What’s an Upsy-Card?”

“It’s Harp-si-chord,” replied Eeyore carefully. “It’s supposed to sound like chords played on a harp ... but it doesn’t. As opposed to a piano, which isn’t quiet.”

“That was hardly a typical 77 minutes of harpsichord music,” put in Rabbit, changing the subject. “With a lesser genius than Bach as composer, and a lesser virtuoso than Rousset as player, it could have been monotonous to listen to.”

“Maybe,” said Owl. “All I can say is that the Goldbergs weren’t monotonous, either from Rousset or from Schiff. Equally nonmonotonous was Schiff’s programme note. As well as the broadside against harpsichords, he made several other blunt assertions:

—observing certain repeats while omitting others is frankly incomprehensible

—transcribing [the virtuoso variations 5, 8, 14, 20 and 26] for another medium is useless and silly”

“Mum,” asked Roo. “Why does Owl say, ‘all I can say is’, and then take so long to say it?”

“Shh, dear.”

“Those blunt assertions aren’t kind to those who disagree,” said Piglet, for whom kindness is important. “Some of them have studied the score just as hard as Mr Schiff. Moreover, as Mr Kenyon said on Saturday, it seems ungenerous to those harpsichord players who welcomed his 1982 recording, to be so disparaging of their choice of instrument.”

“In fairness to András Schiff,” said Kanga, “we should look back to the musical world of 1982 when the prevailing orthodoxy was that Bach’s keyboard works must be played on a harpsichord.”

“Glen Gould recorded the Goldbergs on a piano in 1981,” remarked Owl.

“That’s true; but Gould was a recognized eccentric, who ignored prevailing orthodoxies, and was eminent enough to do so. Schiff was under 30, with his way to make in the World, and musical orthodoxies can be frighteningly unbending. Only someone who believed totally, unconditionally, that what he was doing was right, would have been able to fight his corner. And the fighting would have left scars. We cannot blame him for his certainties, because his certainties did something to enrich our musical life.”

[antongould]

“Glen Gould recorded the Goldbergs on a piano in 1981,”

“That’s true; but Gould was a recognized eccentric, who ignored prevailing orthodoxies, and was eminent enough to do so. Schiff was under 30

Gould of course also recorded the Goldbergs in 1955 when he was in his early twenties and possibly not a recognised eccentric......and before Gould there were others ....

[amateur51]

(Thank you, everyone, for your welcome.)

“Let’s not forget we are talking about an hour and a quarter of music—hands on heart, can you listen to the harpsichord that long?” (András Schiff’s programme note to his 2001 recording of the Goldberg Variations)

“Well, I can,” said Owl. “The CDs arrived yesterday and I spent a chunk of the afternoon listening to Schiff 2001 and Rousset. On first listening, I think I even prefer the harpsichord to the piano.”

“Pardon?,” said Pooh. “What’s an Upsy-Card?”

“It’s Harp-si-chord,” replied Eeyore carefully. “It’s supposed to sound like chords played on a harp ... but it doesn’t. As opposed to a piano, which isn’t quiet.”

“That was hardly a typical 77 minutes of harpsichord music,” put in Rabbit, changing the subject. “With a lesser genius than Bach as composer, and a lesser virtuoso than Rousset as player, it could have been monotonous to listen to.”

“Maybe,” said Owl. “All I can say is that the Goldbergs weren’t monotonous, either from Rousset or from Schiff. Equally nonmonotonous was Schiff’s programme note. As well as the broadside against harpsichords, he made several other blunt assertions:

—observing certain repeats while omitting others is frankly incomprehensible

—transcribing [the virtuoso variations 5, 8, 14, 20 and 26] for another medium is useless and silly”

“Mum,” asked Roo. “Why does Owl say, ‘all I can say is’, and then take so long to say it?”

“Shh, dear.”

“Those blunt assertions aren’t kind to those who disagree,” said Piglet, for whom kindness is important. “Some of them have studied the score just as hard as Mr Schiff. Moreover, as Mr Kenyon said on Saturday, it seems ungenerous to those harpsichord players who welcomed his 1982 recording, to be so disparaging of their choice of instrument.”

“In fairness to András Schiff,” said Kanga, “we should look back to the musical world of 1982 when the prevailing orthodoxy was that Bach’s keyboard works must be played on a harpsichord.”

“Glen Gould recorded the Goldbergs on a piano in 1981,” remarked Owl.

“That’s true; but Gould was a recognized eccentric, who ignored prevailing orthodoxies, and was eminent enough to do so. Schiff was under 30, with his way to make in the World, and musical orthodoxies can be frighteningly unbending. Only someone who believed totally, unconditionally, that what he was doing was right, would have been able to fight his corner. And the fighting would have left scars. We cannot blame him for his certainties, because his certainties did something to enrich our musical life.”

Marvellous invention, Dr Owl!

[Nick Armstrong]

The CDs arrived yesterday and I spent a chunk of the afternoon listening to Schiff 2001 and Rousset.... &c.

Dr Owl, I like your style! A lot!