BaL 21.09.19/21.3.20 - Prokofiev: Symphony no. 1 "Classical"

[Barbirollians]

Works that I have multiple copies of , that I probably haven’t listend to , or haven’t listened to, would certainly include this one along with.......oh well, let’s leave it there.

Can’t see anybody except R3 presenters getting really excited about this.

And possibly not even them.

Malko,Kurtz,Roszdestvensky ,Jarvi and HVK enough I think. Love both old Philharmonia recordings particularly.

[verismissimo]

First recording by Boston SO/Koussevitzky, 1929 … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsDkXrKOFLc

First movement much faster than most recent recordings. Why the slowing down? Composer tempo markings?

[Pulcinella]

First recording by Boston SO/Koussevitzky, 1929 … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsDkXrKOFLc

First movement much faster than most recent recordings. Why the slowing down? Composer tempo markings?

My Dover score (in a volume that also contains Peter and the Wolf, Kije, and Nevsky) gives crotchet = 100 for the first movement, with a footnote saying Composer's metronomic indications.
I have a pencilled in comment saying 'some suggest minim = 100', but have no idea who the 'some' might be or how I knew this!
The other comments in my score are from Annie O Warburton (Analyses of musical classics), but I see no mention there of tempo.
The instruments are shown at actual pitch.

I suppose too that there might be some discussion of the version of the third movement (Gavotte) that has been chosen.

[rauschwerk]

My Dover score (in a volume that also contains Peter and the Wolf, Kije, and Nevsky) gives crotchet = 100 for the first movement, with a footnote saying Composer's metronomic indications.
I have a pencilled in comment saying 'some suggest minim = 100', ..

Minim 100 as given in the B&H pocket score, is certainly right. Both Jarvi/RSNO and Muti/Philadelphia are very accurate here, making the movement duration close to four minutes. Gergiev/LSO take 4'26"" and sound too sluggish to my ears. Koussevitsky goes at about 120!

[Oakapple]

This is from Prokofiev's diary for 12 May 1929.

[Koussevitzky] played me discs of the Classical Symphony which the Boston Symphony has just recorded. They were extremely interesting and very well played; it was a pity that Koussevitzky hurried the tempi too much, turning the Larghetto into something more like an Allegretto.

[Pulcinella]

High hopes this morning, as Andrew seemed not to dominate so much, until his 'unfortunate' wrong-footing of Marina F-W. But overall I was disappointed in the lack of versions covered, and in there being no real mention (apart from two unexplained examples?) of tempo (composer metronome marking) in the first movement, or of the two different versions of the third (Gavotte).

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

High hopes this morning, as Andrew seemed not to dominate so much, until his 'unfortunate' wrong-footing of Marina F-W. But overall I was disappointed in the lack of versions covered, and in there being no real mention (apart from two unexplained examples?) of tempo (composer metronome marking) in the first movement, or of the two different versions of the third (Gavotte).

I wonder what the 3rd version of the Gavotte would have been, before AMcG's unwelcome intervention.

[Bryn]

High hopes this morning, as Andrew seemed not to dominate so much, until his 'unfortunate' wrong-footing of Marina F-W. But overall I was disappointed in the lack of versions covered, and in there being no real mention (apart from two unexplained examples?) of tempo (composer metronome marking) in the first movement, or of the two different versions of the third (Gavotte).

Could you clarify regarding the two different versions of the Gavotte, please? Are you referring to two different versions for the Classical Symphony. or those in the Symphony and in Romeo and Juliet?

[jonfan]

High hopes this morning, as Andrew seemed not to dominate so much, until his 'unfortunate' wrong-footing of Marina F-W. But overall I was disappointed in the lack of versions covered,.

Agree, very few of the long list of available recordings was even mentioned. I don’t have the Symphony in my library so I was looking forward to being enticed by hearing as many informed snippets from various sources as possible. From the few I heard this morning I was taken with the Solti.

[edashtav]

Could you clarify regarding the two different versions of the Gavotte, please? Are you referring to two different versions for the Classical Symphony. or those in the Symphony and in Romeo and Juliet?

I'm unsure whether this helps, Bryn:

Kenneth Woods has written,"It is believed that Prokofiev composed the third movement, a rustic Gavotte marked Non troppo allegro first, possibly as early as 1913. It is one of the shortest movements in the symphonic repertoire, about one-fifth the length of the Scherzo of Tchaikovsky’s Sixth. Slight it may be, but Prokofiev clearly had a soft spot for it, and later recycled an expanded version in his ballet Romeo and Juliet in 1935. Some conductors import the later, longer version from the ballet to the symphony, while others think the concise original is more in the spirit of the whole work."

[Bryn]

I'm unsure whether this helps, Bryn:

Kenneth Woods has written,"It is believed that Prokofiev composed the third movement, a rustic Gavotte marked Non troppo allegro first, possibly as early as 1913. It is one of the shortest movements in the symphonic repertoire, about one-fifth the length of the Scherzo of Tchaikovsky’s Sixth. Slight it may be, but Prokofiev clearly had a soft spot for it, and later recycled an expanded version in his ballet Romeo and Juliet in 1935. Some conductors import the later, longer version from the ballet to the symphony, while others think the concise original is more in the spirit of the whole work."

Thanks, that clarifies the situation well. I would only add the point made during the opening of this morning's BaL that the Gavotte was origianlly a piano piece which Prokofiev orchestrated and was the starting point of the Clasical Synphony.

[Pulcinella]

I'm unsure whether this helps, Bryn:

Kenneth Woods has written,"It is believed that Prokofiev composed the third movement, a rustic Gavotte marked Non troppo allegro first, possibly as early as 1913. It is one of the shortest movements in the symphonic repertoire, about one-fifth the length of the Scherzo of Tchaikovsky’s Sixth. Slight it may be, but Prokofiev clearly had a soft spot for it, and later recycled an expanded version in his ballet Romeo and Juliet in 1935. Some conductors import the later, longer version from the ballet to the symphony, while others think the concise original is more in the spirit of the whole work."

That certainly explains it, thanks!
My Dover score simply says:
III Gavotte
IIIA Gavotte (New expanded version)

But perhaps I should have read the Foreword too:
.....Later on the composer used the gavotte melody of the third movement in his ballet Romeo and Juliet, for which he wrote a second version of the gavotte. The present score of the Classical Symphony has both of these versions.

It would seem entirely reasonable to stick to the composer's original intention for the symphony, I would have thought, so apologies for my misunderstanding along the way!

[edashtav]

That certainly explains it, thanks!
My Dover score simply says:
III Gavotte
IIIA Gavotte (New expanded version)

But perhaps I should have read the Foreword too:
.....Later on the composer used the gavotte melody of the third movement in his ballet Romeo and Juliet, for which he wrote a second version of the gavotte. The present score of the Classical Symphony has both of these versions.

It would seem entirely reasonable to stick to the composer's original intention for the symphony, I would have thought, so apologies for my misunderstanding along the way!

Marina alluded to the genesis of the finale which is detailed in an on-line programme note for the Houston SO:

"In his diary, Prokofiev noted that he “scrapped” the original finale he had written for the symphony because it “seemed to me too ponderous and not characterful enough for a classical symphony.” His friend, the composer and musicologist Boris Asafyev, “put into my mind an idea he was developing, that there is no true joyfulness to be found in Russian music. Thinking about this, I composed a new finale, lively and blithe enough for there to be a complete absence of minor triads in the whole movement, only major ones. From my original finale I salvaged only the second subject. I found the movement extraordinarily easy to write, and the only thing I was concerned with was that its gaiety might border on the indecently irresponsible. But in the first place it never actually crosses this line, and in the second, this kind of finale is quite appropriate to Mozartian style. I was hugging myself with delight all the time I was composing it!”"

I have a lot of respect for Prokofiev's Classical Symphony which carries on the neo-classical spirit established by Beethoven in his 8th symphony. Both play with the denial of expectation, and are founded on the play between lyricism and irony.

[Barbirollians]

And the winner was .....

[Bryn]

And the winner was .....

from schedule listing:

– Building a Library – Marina Frolova-Walker on Prokofiev's Symphony No 1, 'Classical'



Composer: Sergei Prokofiev

Reviewer: Marina Frolova-Walker



Recommended Recording:


St. Petersburg Philharmonic Orchestra

Yuri Temirkanov (conductor)

RCA 82876623192



Other Recommended Recordings:



Chicago Symphony Orchestra

Sir Georg Solti (conductor)

Decca 4833114