BaL 6.07.19 - Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring

[mikealdren]

What was interesting to be reminded of though was how difficult that opening was to play on instruments of the time: nerve-wracking in the extreme for the poor soloist, whereas these days it seems to be just taken for granted (despite always making me that nice little bit apprehensive when I hear a live performance!).

Hence the added words "I'm not a Cor Anglais, this is too high for me". Try singing along!

[Bryn]

Hence the added words "I'm not a Cor Anglais, this is too high for me". Try singing along!

http://bassoonblog.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-rite-of-spring.html

[richardfinegold]

I was worried about Boulez fans, in fact, anyone but fans of the composer himself, forming a dance troupe and sacrificing me in a gory fashion. But "the others sounded great" wasn't my most honest moment, so a blow by blow account to follow, .... and to hell with diplomacy...

Perhaps your immolation will inspire another Composer to immortalize it with with a great Composition, so it will have been well worth it

[Nick Armstrong]

I tend these days to spend more time with the later ballets - and those three in particular. (Very fond of the joie de vivre that is Jeu de Cartes, too.)

Same here. Especially re: Jeu de Cartes which has been a favourite since one of my first ever cassette purchases, a DG Galleria issue of Abbado’s LSO performance coupled with their Pulcinella, also a favourite since then.

Decent enough BaL, didn’t feel I learnt much but I burned out on Rite of Spring early, I always enjoyed all sorts of approaches, from the cumulative (Haitink - it reminded me I had his Concertgebouw LP in the late 70s), transparent (Boulez - I was overwhelmed by a live performance by him in the Barbican, I recall) to the visceral (Salonen). Not a piece I’d listen to on record any more. Loved the live Prom Siècles/Roth performance, also sitting close to the band (in the company of vinteuil, I remember )

[richardfinegold]

Rather harsh. keep going Mal - they are amusing and nobody needs to agree with Mal’s choices and quite a lot of ultra HIppite opinions are musical prejudices too.

Agree, totally. Mal isnt presuming to provide an unbiased literal transcript of the show—he is editorializing as he goes (aren’t the presenters doing the same thing?) and his prejudices aren’t “thinly veiled”-they are front and center for everyone to see.

[Goon525]

Caliban
I think the 70s Haitink was with the LPO, along with a Petrushka and Firebird.

[Nick Armstrong]

Caliban
I think the 70s Haitink was with the LPO, along with a Petrushka and Firebird.

Ah yes quite right, thanks.

[jayne lee wilson]

"HIPP fails again!" was not my interpretation of what the reviewer actually said about F-X R/Les Siécles, it was my raw reaction to the opening bassoon solo. I put what the reviewer actually says, or my best attempt at a summary, in double quotes, and AMcG's responses in single quotes. On the solo, which I love in the performances I have, I was looking for something that would combine the beauty and power of Karajan's bassoon player with the edginess and dynamism of Stravinsky's. My expectations were high, and what came out of my headphones sounded tepid to me, so I was disappointed.

But surely that disappointment is a result of such expectations, and can mean you miss what the Roth bassoon solo, and his remarkable Sacre, has to offer in itself. Most listening is done through such a prism of experience and expectation.

Historically, the common or popular concept of critical evaluation of classical recordings has been something like "we compare x to y to evaluate whether x is better/worse than y"...
Or: "I dislike x because it is not the same as y, my favourite/critical touchstone”….(sometimes with a little added dutiful respect).

In a world of instant access to so many recordings this has changed - and will keep changing.
One thing I've been trying (and apparently failing) to get across e.g. on the recent Mozart thread is that other model of listening and evaluation, which always tries to find the inherent qualities in a given recording, before any such comparison, but within such comparisons tries to avoid the easy trap of better/worse, like/dislike - except perhaps where there is a grossly obvious interpretational misconception or sonic flaw.
This would apply to instruments of various vintages too.

Various publications and BaL itself have historically encouraged the view that there is a good-better-best, a “library choice”, but this feels a very dated way of listening with so many approaches available and streaming to listen to them.
I think the listener needs a certain humility about this now, however tempting it is to colourfully insult and dismiss (the Devil has all the best, or perhaps easiest, metaphors…. as anyone who tries to write knows well…)
For some years now, Gramophone has always had several choice-categories in its Collection articles (yet they still give way to the temptation to pick a winner...)
The best online writing also takes the more relativistic view, e.g. Classical Source, or some of those excellent lengthy surveys in MusicWeb.

Obvious points perhaps…
But this evidently needn’t, and won’t, stop anyone wanting to have fun using the old like/dislike better/worse model (and hopefully be entertaining in doing so)….but for the open-eared, openminded listener there is a more generous and I think musically more enjoyable approach; one which is above all fairer to the performers themselves.

***
As for Le Sacre itself... sadly a case of all passion spent for me, but I got far enough with FX-R to hear again how extraordinary it is. One to give new ears (period ears, indeed...), new insights into the music, on favoured recordings and into themselves and how they listen, to any listener who can leave her old preconceptions at the listening-room door.
(Try approaching it from whence it came, rather than where we've got to...)

[MrGongGong]

This version ? (shame that the Oliver Latry organ duet was taken down)

[Bryn]

(shame that the Oliver Latry organ duet was taken down)

Erm?

[MrGongGong]

Erm?

Thanks

(there was another live version that was online for a while last year)

[Dave2002]

This version ? (shame that the Oliver Latry organ duet was taken down)

[pastoralguy]

Erm?

Fantastic!!

Thanks for that!

[Mal]

Shake Rattle, and roll:

https://bachtrack.com/review-stravinsky-firebird-petrushka-rite-rattle-london-symphony-barbican-september-2017

Sixty string players! Frightening...

[mathias broucek]

I mostly enjoyed it - the Rite is one of my obsessions. However he tended to pick examples of things being done WELL and it can sometimes be more illuminating to hear the illustrations of where things are done BADLY. I also agree that having two presenters can dilute things rather (also means more talking, less playing...)

I have most of the leading contenders already but the Roth is VERY tempting based on the excerpts played. Didn't Stravinsky once quip that the bassoon solo should be taken up a semitone every decade to keep it scary! Perhaps it's the sense of risk that makes youth orchestras sometimes more compelling.. (Off topic, but has anyone heard the Dudamel Francesca - it's really quite special!)