BaL 6.07.19 - Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring

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  • Keraulophone
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 1945

    #91
    Originally posted by Mal View Post
    I was impressed by the performance in "Stravinsky's journeys", a superb video introduced by Jonathan Cross:

    Thank you for linking to this revealing video, which reminded me that I took my 14-y.o. daughter to the complete Firebird in that concert series. Salonen/Philharmonia was a good choice, though one needs others as well. If all the ‘experts’ on BaL were as genuinely expert and personable as Jonathan Cross, the new format might be tolerable (but it still wastes time).

    At a similar age, I was taken to the Stravinsky memorial concert at the RAH (1972) where Bernstein conducted the LSO in Le Sacre with the Symphony of Psalms in the second half. Bernstein had requested that there be no applause at the end, and when a pianissimo patter of clapping began, he turned rather dramatically and silenced it. The whole concert is on an ICA Classics DVD with bits on YT, though I’ve not seen it.

    The first LP boxed set that I spent my pocket money on was Stravinsky Conducts Stravinsky (CBS, 3LPs) bought at Thomas Heinitz, of fond memory. Those records were, appropriately, played to death in my boarding school study, competing with Genesis and Santana next door, partly because of the very thin and easily warped turquoise-label CBS pressings of the early 1970s.

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    • Bryn
      Banned
      • Mar 2007
      • 24688

      #92
      Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
      Salonen? Good choice (and saves me money ) - and the box that Bryn and Pulcie refer to is superb.
      It's also in the Sony 100th Anniversary Collection of the work, which appears to have fallen out of the current catalogue. See amazon.co.uk ASIN: B00AYQHPDK.

      Comment

      • Pulcinella
        Host
        • Feb 2014
        • 10897

        #93
        Originally posted by Bryn View Post
        It's also in the Sony 100th Anniversary Collection of the work, which appears to have fallen out of the current catalogue. See amazon.co.uk ASIN: B00AYQHPDK.
        .....which is a shame, as it also includes the Boulez Cleveland and Stravinsky Columbia recordings.

        Comment

        • seabright
          Full Member
          • Jan 2013
          • 625

          #94
          There's a very fuzzy video of Salonen and the LA Phil (undated) on YouTube but I only switched to the end to see how he beat the Sacrificial Dance. It wasn't so much conducting as thrashing around like a demented marionette. Still, the audience loved it so I guess that was all that mattered ... ;) ...

          Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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          • ferneyhoughgeliebte
            Gone fishin'
            • Sep 2011
            • 30163

            #95
            Originally posted by Keraulophone View Post
            The first LP boxed set that I spent my pocket money on was Stravinsky Conducts Stravinsky (CBS, 3LPs) bought at Thomas Heinitz, of fond memory. Those records were, appropriately, played to death in my boarding school study, competing with Genesis and Santana next door, partly because of the very thin and easily warped turquoise-label CBS pressings of the early 1970s.
            - a little preliminary wobble-boarding before every playing!

            That box was a Christmas present I received in 1976 - and, yes, both Sacre (appropriately) and Petrushka "played to death" in the next few years (shifting the play arm to the empty groove after the composer's apropos le sacre talk - great stuff ("thee ideearrh of Le Sacre d'pruntump came to me whan I was steel compohsing the Fiyabirrrhd ..." much missed from the huge SONY box issued about ten years later).
            [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

            Comment

            • Bryn
              Banned
              • Mar 2007
              • 24688

              #96
              Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
              - a little preliminary wobble-boarding before every playing!

              That box was a Christmas present I received in 1976 - and, yes, both Sacre (appropriately) and Petrushka "played to death" in the next few years (shifting the play arm to the empty groove after the composer's apropos le sacre talk - great stuff ("thee ideearrh of Le Sacre d'pruntump came to me whan I was steel compohsing the Fiyabirrrhd ..." much missed from the huge SONY box issued about ten years later).


              The text is included in the booklet which comes with the Sony 100th Anniversary box.

              Comment

              • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                Gone fishin'
                • Sep 2011
                • 30163

                #97
                - I never understood why, with the rehearsal excerpts included in the first (& flawed - Movements) CD box, they didn't find room for the Sacre talk.
                [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                Comment

                • Mal
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2016
                  • 892

                  #98
                  My stomp by stomp reaction to the show:

                  Stravinsky Rite of Spring

                  Part I: Adoration of the Earth

                  Introduction

                  Kicked off by François-Xavier Roth/Les Siècles 1913 version performed on period instruments, with the focus here on a French bassoon from 1900. HIPP fails again!
                  Karajan’s bassoon sounds far more beautiful and mysterious, Stravinsky’s much edgier and hipper (in every sense…)

                  Yuri Temirkanov/St. Petersburg Philharmonic Orchestra, “provides modern instruments, but a much older tradition of playing” This is an interesting, poignant sound, very mysterious, and full of feeling. I love it, as does Jonathan Cross: “Vibrato, rubato, going back to the Romantic, melancholy, much freedom…”

                  Moving into the dynamic part of the introduction we get Stravinsky, Columbia Symphony Orchestra, 1960, “very telling, fast, not quite altogether, but get a sense of nature all chirping together, Pan makes an appearance...” Wonderful stuff!

                  Then we get Boulez, a “modernist reading, analysing each layer.” Sounds like a Cyberman weather forecaster announcing a light drizzle over the Chilterns. Where’s Pan?

                  Augurs of Spring

                  Stravinsky, Columbia Symphony Orchestra, 1960 “ten beats a minute faster than his own metronome mark in the score, likes the accents, stresses them here” Really thrilling stuff!

                  Salonen, Philharmonia Orchestra, provided as a direct comparison to Stravinsky here. Cross points out he has “youthul energy, and is quite fast”. But where are the elders stomping about arthritically with ancestral skulls and bones. Stravinsky conjures them up, Salonen is too perky.

                  Bernstein/LSO “space for nasty rasping horn chords”. Too much space? Sounds a bit laboured. “Bernstein/LSO more technicolour Hollywood than Bernstein/NYPO”. Is this a good thing?

                  Ritual of Abduction

                  Teodor Currentzis/ MusicAeterna “wonderful recorded sound”, and it drifts along nicely, but doesn’t have the driving momentum of Stravinsky.

                  Spring Rounds

                  Haitink/BPO “steady pulse with almost hypnotic effect.” ‘then tympani comes in... terrifying…’

                  Procession of the Sage

                  Rattle/CBSO “subtle sensitive, but not without bite”, but when it speeds up in…

                  Dance of the Earth

                  … “who does the raw better than Gergiev/Marinsky. The wildness is so exciting” And it is! Caveat: “Slow tempo.” True, Stravinsky maybe still has the edge for wild momentum.

                  Part II: The Sacrifice

                  Introduction

                  “Boulez gets the transparency, almost like a chamber score…, Currentzis greater shape, pent up power”. But neither really grab me.

                  Circles of the Young Girls “Beautifully realised by Salonen”.

                  Glorification of the Chosen One “uninhibited primitive violence in Gergiev, great weight, slow tempo”

                  Evocation of the Ancestors “Stravinsky relishes this, really creepy, preparing the girl for the sacrifice, cor anglais snake charmer.” (Yup, it’s wonderful, best clip of the day!) “He still had it”. Indeed, you tell those Stravinsky knockers Jonathan!

                  Ritual Action of the Ancestors

                  “Yuri Temirkanov captures this live, … apart from strange audience noise”. ‘tremendous foreboding’. No performing rituals in the audience please! :)

                  Sacrificial Dance

                  Rattle/CBSO “measure tempo, subtle, sinister, something nasty is about to happen,...” Too measured? “Slow, energy there, I love Rattle’s ending”. Yeah, but too measured, Rattle’s too often too measured!

                  Not played: “Markevitch, not a great quality performance”

                  The winner: Salonen/Philharmonia “love the youthful energy”. But, for me, it doesn’t have the edginess of Stravinsky, and no one else really challenged the man himself.
                  Last edited by Mal; 06-07-19, 12:02.

                  Comment

                  • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                    Gone fishin'
                    • Sep 2011
                    • 30163

                    #99
                    Originally posted by Mal View Post
                    Then we get Boulez, a “modernist reading, analysing each layer.” Sounds like a Cyberman weather forecaster announcing a light drizzle over the Chilterns.
                    OY!!! That simile's still under copyright!

                    (Which of the Boulez recordings was referred to, by the way? The CBS/SONY Cleveland Orchestra recording is a much better performance than that with the same orchestra for DG from around a quarter-century later.)

                    PS - thanks for the summary, though, Mal
                    [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                    Comment

                    • Petrushka
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 12241

                      Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post

                      PS - thanks for the summary, though, Mal
                      Reading Mal's summary has become a Saturday lunchtime ritual here.
                      "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

                      Comment

                      • Bryn
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 24688

                        Originally posted by Mal View Post
                        . . . Kicked off by François-Xavier Roth/Les Siècles 1913 version performed on period instruments, with the focus here on a French bassoon from 1900. HIPP fails again! . . .
                        or:

                        ALBUM OF THE WEEK 'As heard at the scandalous 1913 world première is the gist of Roth s claims for this first period-instrument recording of The Rite with special permission from Boosey & Hawkes, which usually only authorises performances of Stravinsky s 1967 edition. It s certainly hard to imagine the first performance, under Pierre Monteux, being as well played as this, as Les Siècles follow up their revelatory account of the complete Firebird score. The sound of their French-made turn-of-the-century (mostly 1880s to 1920s) instruments throws fresh light on these modern masterpieces: a tuba, two-thirds the size of modern ones, by Adolphe Sax, inventor of the saxophone; and wonderful Buffet Crampon clarinets and bassoons. The Rite s famous bassoon solo is played without the octave key invented to make this very music less difficult to play. One can t listen with 1913 ears, of course, but there s a palpable sense of freshness with more astringent gut strings that convey the abrasiveness of Stravinsky s writing better than their modern metal equivalents. It s not clear from the notes whether the piano soloist in Petrushka is using an Erard or a Pleyel, but the sound is luminous and transparent, and Roth effortlessly evokes the eeriness of the puppet s ghostly apparition at the close.' --Hugh Canning, The Sunday Times 15 June 2014

                        ORCHESTRAL CHOICE ***** Performance/ ***** Recording 'a chance to hear the Rite close to how Stravinsky originally conceived it for its 1913 premiere in Paris … an exciting visceral performance of The Rite of Spring, culminating in a ferocious final dance.' --Daniel Jaffe, BBC Music Magazine

                        'plenty to admire in the playing from Les Siecles … this disc is mandatory listening' --Mark Pullinger, International Record Review, September 2014

                        SUNDAY TIMES 100 BEST RECORDS OF THE YEAR Classical No.13 'Explosive period-instrument performances of these modern classics give an impression of what it was like to be there in 1913 and 1911.' --Hugh Canning The Sunday Times, 7th December 2014

                        BBC RADIO 3 CD REVIEW CRITICS CHOICE OF THE YEAR 2014 'a fantastic recording...the balance is changed by the different instrumental sonorities, you actually hear different things emerging from the texture, and it s so exciting...it s so visceral' --Flora Wilson BBC Radio 3 CD Review, 20th December 2014

                        'there s a heart-lifting sense of renewal and rediscovery ... these are very worthwhile performances; indeed, those who think they know these scores will be surprised at how much other performers seem to miss ... Illuminating and individual' --Dan Morgan, Music Web International, 19th January 2015

                        Comment

                        • HighlandDougie
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 3082

                          "HIPP fails again" - nonsense. If Les Siècles/Roth was a "failure", why did it feature in the final shortlist? And why did Jonathan Cross praise Roth's interpretation? Come, come, Mal, you might not like it but that's not a reason to traduce the performance.

                          Comment

                          • Mal
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2016
                            • 892

                            Originally posted by HighlandDougie View Post
                            "HIPP fails again" - nonsense. If Les Siècles/Roth was a "failure", why did it feature in the final shortlist? And why did Jonathan Cross praise Roth's interpretation? Come, come, Mal, you might not like it but that's not a reason to traduce the performance.
                            Maybe I was a bit harsh, but I didn't like the opening bassoon solo.

                            Andrew Clements in the Guardian has some reservations:

                            "... lithe transparency... subtle shading and shifted emphases... Sometimes, though, that is achieved at the expense of some of the work's feral intensity: Roth does tend to keep things on a tight rein."



                            Only 3/5 stars in the Telegraph:

                            " “Period” alto flutes just aren’t as powerful as modern ones, and that was a problem in the Ritual Action... The last chord in this performance proved that Stravinsky’s description of it as an “undifferentiated noise” was exactly right — which is why he recomposed it later. But if the composer wasn’t satisfied with the ballet’s first version, why should we be? There was a contradiction at the heart of the enterprise, which all the exotic colours couldn’t compensate for."

                            French orchestra Les Siècles gave an exotic twist to a difficult version of the Rite of Spring, says Ivan Hewett.

                            Comment

                            • jayne lee wilson
                              Banned
                              • Jul 2011
                              • 10711

                              Originally posted by Mal View Post
                              I didn't like the opening bassoon solo; it seemed a failure to me. Maybe not to Jonathan Cross as he started with it, but these things are subjective, so you can't say it's nonsense.

                              Andrew Clements in the Guardian has some reservations:

                              "... lithe transparency... subtle shading and shifted emphases... Sometimes, though, that is achieved at the expense of some of the work's feral intensity: Roth does tend to keep things on a tight rein."



                              Only 3/5 stars in the Telegraph:

                              " “Period” alto flutes just aren’t as powerful as modern ones, and that was a problem in the Ritual Action... The last chord in this performance proved that Stravinsky’s description of it as an “undifferentiated noise” was exactly right — which is why he recomposed it later. But if the composer wasn’t satisfied with the ballet’s first version, why should we be? There was a contradiction at the heart of the enterprise, which all the exotic colours couldn’t compensate for."

                              https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...ll-review.html
                              Not precise enough Mal, as the Hewitt review is about the Prom (in the vast acoustic spaces of the RAH, possibly Lost in Space...), not the recording.... and Clements has very few words on the Rite either....
                              But saying " “Period” alto flutes just aren’t as powerful as modern ones," really does miss the point (as so many shallow HIPPs-critiques do from a wrong-headed ideological perspective).....but in the RAH? Oh, please.....

                              Xavier-Roth's Sacre was recorded in the rather more suitably-scaled Metz Arsenal. Andrew Achenbach's very positive and detailed review is in Gramophone 9/2014.

                              If I can bear through the familiarity I'll try to hear Xavier-Roth and Salonen later, possibly the BaL too....
                              Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 06-07-19, 15:33.

                              Comment

                              • Bryn
                                Banned
                                • Mar 2007
                                • 24688

                                For what it's worth, j, I was at that Prom, admittedly in the arena, close to the rail, and was mightily impressed with the performance. Having been trained by that master of orchestration, Rimsky Korsskov, young Igor knew what alto flutes around at that time were capable of. I found no major problems with the orchestral balance, either on the night or later, via the iPlayer's 'HD Sound' offering.

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