BaL 1.06.19 - Mendelssohn: Symphony no. 4 "Italian"

[cloughie]

I bought Orozco-Estrada's Reformation symphony mainly for Isabella Faust'sperformance of the Violin Concerto and enjoyed both performances, so his would be my choice for the Italian/ Scottish coupling. I much prefer smaller orchestras (period or modern instruments) in symphonic music of the period to full symphony orchestras with massed strings doing their best to obscure detail in the wind and brass sections. At present I only have the LSO/ Abbado recording on LP.

My guess is that we will only hear a handful (less than 10) recordings and do not know if these will be pre-selected by the reviewer or Radio3 production staff.

Is that the Decca or DG?

[richardfinegold]

My adoration of Mendelssohn knows few bounds...so....

All down to the calibre of the reviewer - or surveyor - as usual... good choice of work, but shame it wasn't a less beaten path, No.1 say, or - shock horror - a look at complete cycles, of which there have been quite a few new HIPPS or chamber orchestral newcomers in the last decade or so...

For No.4 itself, thinking no more than twice...
COE/Nézet-Séguin (DG)....
Musikkollegium Winterthur/Holliger (of the rarely heard later 1833/34 version, marvellously played and recorded (MDG) in any case...)

LSO/Gardiner fine too, just a shade below these, largely on account of sonic/tonal/orchestral beauties in the above. Barbican better handled in hi-res for the LSO/JEG, but it only goes so far...
Want a safer option? CBSO/Gardner (Chandos, rec. Birmingham Town Hall)...

I’ve been listening to the JEG/LSO recording a lot recently, as discussed in the Blu Ray music threads. It is most remarkable for the speed of the Tarantella and the aplomb with which the Orchestra executes those tempos. Sonically I concur with Jlw.
My first into to all of FM Orchestral works was Bernstein but it was the Stokie/National Philharmonic recording that captured my affections.
Didn’t Robert Schumann once write a review in which he confused the Italian and Scottish Symphonies?

[richardfinegold]

I've always been very fond of the Hanover Band/Goodman recording, but then I am one of the few unashamed fans of that large Nimbus acoustic.

I haven’t heard that recording, but I do have Goodman and the Hanover Band in the teenage Symphonies, and I don’t remember the acoustic being objectionable

[edashtav]

[…]
Abbado - I have that set too! It's cracking; verve, energy, control, and the excellent, on top-form LSO; what's not to like?

A wonderful recording.

[Barbirollians]

My first recording was LSO/Previn which I am still fond of but also have the CBS Bernstein which is a thriller , the lithe Krivine, Flor and Abbado and the LSO from the DG set .If forced to choose it would be Abbado.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I bought the 'Philharmonia Promenade Orch' - who he?/ Wallberg HMV Concert Classics LP on about Day 3 as record collector c.1972 (widely recommended in its day - does anyone else recall it with affection?)

Nobody else remember Wallberg??

Guardian obituary 14/10/04: It was a mark of the new esteem in which Wallberg was held at this time, when great maestros such as Klemperer and Karajan or young firebrands such as Guido Cantelli dominated the Philharmonia, that he also recorded with the orchestra a scrupulously detailed, surprisingly vivacious disc of Mendelssohn's Italian Symphony and music from A Midsummer Night's Dream - an LP that was recycled often enough to impress a subsequent generation of listeners unaware of Wallberg's distinguished credentials.

[jayne lee wilson]

I bought Orozco-Estrada's Reformation symphony mainly for Isabella Faust'sperformance of the Violin Concerto and enjoyed both performances, so his would be my choice for the Italian/ Scottish coupling. I much prefer smaller orchestras (period or modern instruments) in symphonic music of the period to full symphony orchestras with massed strings doing their best to obscure detail in the wind and brass sections. At present I only have the LSO/ Abbado recording on LP.

My guess is that we will only hear a handful (less than 10) recordings and do not know if these will be pre-selected by the reviewer or Radio3 production staff.

The Isabelle Faust Violin Concerto/5th Symphony was with Freiburg Baroque/Heras-Casado of course (a stunning album), but yes - it is an excellent still continuing, Mendelssohn cycle....on HM -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=mendelssohn+heras-casado&rh=n%3A229816&dc&qid=1558884991&rnid=1642204031&ref=sr_nr_n_1

Orozco-Estrada's Mendelssohn Symphonies are on OEHMS with the Tonkünstler, but I've not heard anything from that live cycle...(yet...)

[jayne lee wilson]

Terrific Italian from Thomas Fey and those virtuoso, individualistic Heidelbergers (Hänssler). (A partnership I love very much, especially for their Haydn series).

Decidedly HIPPs-articulated, light, swift and keenly rhythmical, with many fresh observations. Sinously melodic opening on those lean minimal-vibrato strings, but the rhythms really hammered out with the belated third subject’s arrival, very brass-led. That dramatic contrast - modern winds/strings but cutting-edge, texturally-proud period brass - persists right through the performance, so if you prefer a warmer blend, maybe walk on by….(or better: put yourself though it!).
Fey also indulges a typically mercurial approach to tempi, especially at the 1st movement’s end. The winds/strings almost lose focus here, as the brass declaim above them, but this is very exciting…!

The andante adds unusual tension to the poignancy; the minuet is flowing yet very gentle, but again with sharply-terraced, texturally forward period brass in the trio. Fey then appears to attempt a new land speed record for the finale, even quicker than LSO/JEG, and the players keep up brilliantly - just. At this pace, some of the lilt or schwung is missing, the rhythms are shade flattened or stiff…. but don’t fight it, feel it - jump in the saddle with both ears and hang on!
Fey emphasises sonic and expressive contrasts throughout, so this saltarello makes thrilling musical sense in context.

[vinteuil]

Terrific Italian from Thomas Fey and those virtuoso, individualistic Heidelbergers (Hänssler). (A partnership I love very much, especially for their Haydn series).
Decidedly HIPPs-articulated, light, swift and keenly rhythmical, with many fresh observations. Sinously melodic opening on those lean minimal-vibrato strings, but the rhythms really hammered out with the belated third subject’s arrival, very brass-led. That dramatic contrast - modern winds/strings but cutting-edge, texturally-proud period brass - persists right through the performance, so if you prefer a warmer blend, maybe walk on by….(or better: put yourself though it!). Fey also indulges a typically mercurial approach to tempi, especially at the 1st movement’s end. The winds/strings almost lose focus here, as the brass declaim above them, but this is very exciting…! The andante adds unusual tension to the poignancy; the minuet is very gentle, but again with sharply-terraced, texturally forward period brass. Fey then appears to attempt a new land speed record for the finale, even quicker than LSO/JEG, and the players keep up brilliantly - just. At this pace, some of the lilt or schwung is missing, the rhythms are shade flattened or stiff…. but don’t fight it, feel it - jump in the saddle with both ears and hang on! Fey emphasises sonic and expressive contrasts throughout, so this saltarello makes thrilling musical sense in context.

... I have the Fey in this recommendable box :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0753HSTQV

.

[jayne lee wilson]

I listened off of this one on Qobuz Studio....

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/mendelssohn-complete-symphonies-thomas-fey-heidelberger-sinfoniker/pe54498cvt3vc

...I see there are some cheap 2ndhand CD sets of Symphonies/String Symphonies only, on Amazon...

[MickyD]

I haven’t heard that recording, but I do have Goodman and the Hanover Band in the teenage Symphonies, and I don’t remember the acoustic being objectionable

That's because by then they had switched to RCA, and they sound quite different there. I certainly don't find the Nimbus sound objectionable, far from it. But there are some who likened it to a swimming pool.

[MickyD]

This HIP one is also pretty good:

[jayne lee wilson]

I tend to keep away from larger symphony orchestras in this repertoire now, but It’s still unusual for me to take so negatively against a recording as I did to the Philharmonia/Sinopoli (1984, DG, via Qobuz Studio), largely on account of the very slow tempi in the middle movements. The con moto moderato (more of an andante senza motivo here) seems interminable at 8’16, all the worse for an inflexible uniformity of phrase and pace.

The outer movements fare better, but for all the fineness of the playing, there seems nothing especially distinctive about them to these ears. The tempi are very steady, and the 1st movement’s 2nd group seems very bland in this account. It just goes along…, and without much variance in the repeat, which for once seems once too often. A lack of micro-dynamic subtlety too, which is one of the especial gains in HIPPS and chamber orchestral readings, strikingly so with Heras-Casado - of which more later.
(I was amused to find EG in the Gramophone review describing Sinopoli as setting "a dangerously fast tempo" for the first movement. Tempora Mutantur....)

Sorry to its admirers here but at least I gave it a try..!

[Stanfordian]

I tend to keep away from larger symphony orchestras in this repertoire now, but It’s still unusual for me to take so negatively against a recording as I did to the Philharmonia/Sinopoli (1984, DG), largely on account of the very slow tempi in the middle movements. The con moto moderato (more of an andante senza motivo here) seems interminable at 8’16, all the worse for an inflexible uniformity of phrase and pace.

The outer movements fare better, but for all the fineness of the playing, there seems nothing especially distinctive about them to these ears. The tempi are very steady, and the 1st movement’s 2nd group seems very bland in this account. It just goes along…, and without much variance in the repeat, which for once seems once too often. A lack of micro-dynamic subtlety too, which is one of the especial gains in HIPPS and chamber orchestral readings, strikingly so with Heras-Casado - of which more later.
(I was amused to find EG in the Gramophone review describing Sinopoli as setting "a dangerously fast tempo" for the first movement. Tempora Mutantur....)

Sorry to its admirers here but at least I gave it a try..!

Today, I'm going to make a point of listening to the account of the 'Italian' Symphony from the Heidelberger Sinfoniker under Thomas Fey on Hänssler Classic.

[CallMePaul]

Is that the Decca or DG?

Decca