BaL 1.06.19 - Mendelssohn: Symphony no. 4 "Italian"

[Goon525]

Finally got to listen to the winning Gardner. Not much to add to JLW's description of a couple of pages ago. Very high quality Chandos sound (96/24 doing no harm), which as she says is mid hall with plenty of depth, sounding like a large orchestra in a large venue. Perhaps just some discreet assistance for the woodwind. If I’m being a snob, I did think the violin tone was a bit provincial sounding (in a way I never felt about the same orchestra on Mirga's new Weinberg disc) but they conveyed plenty of excitement, and the whole thing is highly successful. (Is the tempo for the main part of the minuet just a fraction slow, if not to Sinopoli's extremes?)

Oh, and yes, that F minor late quartet is certainly worth mentioning in the same breath as late Beethoven or one of the Schubert chamber masterpieces. I was lucky enough to hear the Belcea's play it last year at the Yehudi Menuhin school, and I’m struggling to imagine a better performance. A wonderful work.

[Master Jacques]

Elijah, though much loved by choral societies, is perhaps not Mendelssohn at his best in absolute terms, but shows his ability to adapt to popular tastes. The tenor solo 'If with all your hearts' is a bit of a gift. It's earned me a few quid over the years.

Quite right too! I just wonder what you mean by "at his best in absolute terms"? Perhaps just that: this isn't absolute music, nor is it meant to be. It is dramatic music, with a mercifully small number of fugues, contrapuntal devices and other absolute techniques. And as drama, it is superb - one hit number after another, for all the soloists and (as you say) the chorus too, with a cumulative build in performance which can be overwhelming.

Beyond that, Elijah is still very much with us as drama. Mendelssohn quarries deep into universal ideas of religion, society, politics and the nature of leadership, not least in the Judaic context. It is a work which is still vibrantly alive, and has oodles to say to us.

Popular taste sometimes has a knack of being right. And I don't know about "adapting" himself to it. Composers want to communicate with as many people as possible. Mendelssohn surely "meant" Elijah 100%: it remained close to his heart, and he at least considered it to be the best of him. It is one of the greatest of all large-scale choral works, without reservation.

[edashtav]

Goldilocks zone [Oliver's usage perplexed Jayne.]
A trendy Astronomical expression
"The Goldilocks Zone refers to the habitable zone around a star where the temperature is just right - not too hot and not too cold - for liquid water to exist on an planet. ... Looking for planets in the Goldilocks Zone is a way that allows scientists to home in during their search for Earth-like planets that could contain life."

[edashtav]

Jayne has written,"You mean Condy's comment about JEG being "schoolmasterish" or a "strict tourist guide", and "are we having fun yet" etc.?
But isn't that a pretty clichéd view of JEG already? "

My response, Jayne is to say, "No", this is not a clichéd view of Jeggers.

Examining previous usage of "schoolmasterly" in respect of JEG's conducting, I note that it has been used in a positive sense, meaning "avuncular", a smiling presence, suggesting that JEG resembled a much loved Kantor coaxing his young forces with a relaxed 'nod and a wink'.

Oliver modified schoolmasterish so as to define JEG's qualities as more remote. Condy's teacher figure was a martinet imposing fun on his forces.

[cloughie]

Goldilocks zone [Oliver's usage perplexed Jayne.]
A trendy Astronomical expression
"The Goldilocks Zone refers to the habitable zone around a star where the temperature is just right - not too hot and not too cold - for liquid water to exist on an planet. ... Looking for planets in the Goldilocks Zone is a way that allows scientists to home in during their search for Earth-like planets that could contain life."

The Goldilocks Zone around Ursae Major et Minor would make an interesting tale!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

- pity there isn't an "Ursa Inter".

Not that it maters.

[cloughie]

- pity there isn't an "Ursa Inter".

Not that it maters.

Perhaps Major was a single parent!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Perhaps Major was a single parent!

Or the missus was doing porridge?

[jayne lee wilson]

Goldilocks zone [Oliver's usage perplexed Jayne.]
A trendy Astronomical expression
"The Goldilocks Zone refers to the habitable zone around a star where the temperature is just right - not too hot and not too cold - for liquid water to exist on an planet. ... Looking for planets in the Goldilocks Zone is a way that allows scientists to home in during their search for Earth-like planets that could contain life."

Yes, but that being the case, perhaps a slightly desperate attempt to find an "inventive" metaphor for "just right"...?
If you try to write (or talk) about music, you should look very critically at any metaphor that occurs to you, the more inventive the more critically you should look...
That thing about being prepared to cut out "your best lines"... often the ones that draw attention to themselves, rather than qualities in music or performance, the desire to entertain notwithstanding. (Mea Culpa I'm sure but, hey, I'm only human...)

***
I guess we have to agree-to-differ about JEG and The Schoolmaster thing, Ed... I've seen this artist described as "too strict" or unyielding etc...(i.e. in phrase or tempi. I felt Condy's comments tended that way...his "tourist guide pointing out buildings" seemed an inapt critical metaphor, without much to do with the music).
Listening to some of his Proms across the 1990s, before I had a CD Player, I sometimes felt that way about JEG's direction myself - it often seemed all energy, no flexibility (a particular Beethoven 9th comes to mind); later, more considered inspection and enjoyment of his recordings (e.g. Schumann Symphonies, Brahms Requiem (both), Missa Solemnis (both)), and hearing some Haydn with the VPO on R3 (96 I think) forced me to revise that impression.
That last live ORR release of Schubert 5/Brahms Serenade 2 is an absolute peach. I wish he'd revisit the Brahms Symphonies (the SDG set is a bit fits-and-starts...) ...

[cloughie]

Or the missus was doing porridge?

Too hot or too cold?

[Maclintick]

Examining previous usage of "schoolmasterly" in respect of JEG's conducting, I note that it has been used in a positive sense, meaning "avuncular", a smiling presence, suggesting that JEG resembled a much loved Kantor coaxing his young forces with a relaxed 'nod and a wink'.

In the context of JEG's Mendelssohn recordings do you mean the "young forces" of the VPO & LSO ? The image of the "Kantor", avuncular or otherwise, strikes me as hilarious in relation to any putative relationship between JEG & these ensembles...

[edashtav]

In the context of JEG's Mendelssohn recordings do you mean the "young forces" of the VPO & LSO ? The image of the "Kantor", avuncular or otherwise, strikes me as hilarious in relation to any putative relationship between JEG & these ensembles...

I was referring back in time to the early years with his Monteverdi Choir, Maclintick.

[Maclintick]

I was referring back in time to the early years with his Monteverdi Choir, Maclintick.

Ah...not convincingly the wiser since JEG formed the Monteverdi Choir as a student ensemble when he himself was still a student -- hence my not quite understanding the "Kantor-ish" appellation, which seems to betoken a maturity born of many years' experience or at the very least a definable pedagogical quality. Sorry for being so obtuse. In the event of this not being relevant to discussion of JEG's Mendelssohn, I'd agree with those who found his LSO "Italian" devoid of charm/humanity/musicality -- just listen to the ploddingly bald & frankly boring extract of the "andante con moto" in last Sat's BAL to hear what I mean.

[jayne lee wilson]

But at hi-res, within the whole performance, played over and over here alongside the Vienna recording...... that JEG andante is beautiful, light and swift.......(subjectively, of course....)....
It always worries me, this judgement with, or from, lossy excerpts.....

Symphonic Context is all.

But back to ENG v NED....

[Goon525]

And I think Jiggy has a less mistake prone defence.