BaL 18.05.19 - Sibelius: Lemminkäinen Suite, Op.22

[Bryn]

Correct me if I am wrong but for a long time Jensen’s recording from the early 50s was the only widely available recording, (I don't recall the early Ormandy recording been around but it may have been) and it was always called Four Leminkainen Legends, so maybe it does not need to be considered either as a suite or a symphony. However it would be foolish to deny the Suite nomenclature attached to later recordings, the first of which I recall was Kamu on DGG - very welcome as a good real stereo recording and it also wowed me with the playing and the idea firmly planted in my head that the Swan should be played third! I really do not go for the idea that this is not masterful or apprentice stuff or whatever. It is Sibelius doing what he does and his take at that time sure. Do not all composers and have not all composers do the same - their influences and ideas changing constantly. Which other composers wrote early opus masterpieces that you wish to damn with faint praises?

The final revised score does not appear to have been published until 1954. As to whether or not it might be considered a symphony, its compose had this to say, "I actually have nine symphonies, since some of the movements in Kullervo and Lemminkäinen are in pure sonata form".

[Bryn]

See Gramophone, 12/99, for details.... AA reported in his generally favourable review (from a purely musical POV) that Robert Suff confirmed to him that the recording sessions were "dogged by technical gremlins" which they then had to attempt to improve upon in the later production stages...

AA commented that despite all efforts, the results "muffled and curiously hollow, with etiolated strings" fell "disconcertingly far below their usual exalted technical standards"....

All I can add is - those BIS perfectionists appear to have rescued the situation very well, at some point since...so it is now very well worth a good, close listen...

Thanks for the reference, I had begun to think it was purely a Hurwitz assessment but now see he simply picked up the ball and ran with it. Listening now, I do hear the somewhat muffled aspect that AA mentioned but feel the need to again cite Ulyanov's comment on Rosa Luxemburg, BIS representing the eagles on this occasion. A BIS recording on a bad day can be far better than many other companies' results on a good one.

[Master Jacques]

Apologies if this one was mentioned by Andrew Mellow after I'd turned BaL off on Saturday, but I see there's a brand-new recording of the Lemminkäinen Suite [sic.] coming out on May 31st, with the BBC Symphony Orchestra under Sakari Oramo on Chandos. It's coupled with Spring Song and the short suite from Belshazzar's Feast.

[edashtav]

Apologies if this one was mentioned by Andrew Mellow after I'd turned BaL off on Saturday, but I see there's a brand-new recording of the Lemminkäinen Suite [sic.] coming out on May 31st, with the BBC Symphony Orchestra under Sakari Oramo on Chandos. It's coupled with Spring Song and the short suite from Belshazzar's Feast.

Thanks for that intelligence, Master Jacques: I'm about to mention Spring Song .

My Problems with the Maidens' Song: the first Lemminkaïnen Legend.

I have dealt with my worries over the nature of its themes earlier in this thread. Sibelius's transient interest in unbroken, extended melody reached its ultimate excess in his previous orchestral piece Spring Song. However, this Wagner-influenced methodology remains the basis for the Maidens' Song whereas the rest of the Legends are more aligned with Sibelius's later 'symphonic' methodology.

Last night, I listened to a fine performance on R.3 of Naïve and Sentimental Music by John Adams. It got me thinking in which group did Sibelius's music fit? It occurred to me that Sibelius was a naïve man: he was extremely sensual and direct, ruled by feelings that were often exacerbated by strong drink. Yet, Sibelius, in his mature compositions reveals a more sentimental, reflective and studied personality: form and structure matter and the themes transcend both the man, and perhaps mankind, too. That is not true of his music of apprenticeship and the first Lemminkaïnen Legend is written by Sibelius, the unbridled, naïve man.

Sibelius developed a strong sense of tonality, his mature works revel in a sure tonal grip and direction. Not for him the constant modulations that can merge into 50 Shades of Grey in the scores of Max Reger nor the luscious exotic chromaticism of much late Romantic music that leads to another grove of tonal instability. Unfortunately, structurally, the Maidens' Song proceeds in a plodding, Wagnerian manner. Its development and recapitulation are fused into one long unit but confuse because the bringing together of the sonata's themes plus the achievement of its tonal goal are anticipated early, undermining the oh-so-delayed final resolution of climactic glory and certainty. In between, the tonal journey is muddled and uncertain.

These are the types of issue that define the piece for me as work in progress and atypical of the full genius that the sentimental Sibelius would unveil over the next two decades.

[jayne lee wilson]

Lemminkäinen and the Maidens of Sari is a play of musical energies: rhythmic and melodic. After a slow intro, the winds start a chattering dancing motion based on at least three ideas (already with an intriguing apprehensive tension about it). A broad Romantic melody sweeps in, takes over briefly, reaches a quasi-climax; darkness and withdrawal for a few moments; then the rhythmic figures start again, gaining power and texture, finding new shapes and extended, darker more ominous scurrying sequences. The Romantic melody returns, starts to join the dance and ever more urgently, the dance-figures adapt to the melodic sweep, the music is driven by the impassioned but slightly uneasy conjoining of the two elements (basses still scurrying below, determined in their involvement) to a sustained, very powerful climax . After which, all passion spent, there is peace and restfulness. The dance figures relax and reflect, the melody all but fades away.

The flowing continuity of the piece is remarkable. It is built from the ebb and flow of musical shapes and textures, an irresistible magnetic attraction and opposition of contrasting ideas, rather than any conventional developments. (Fascinating too, that the first of those little dance-figures always seems to be there, like a natural phenomenon, when more powerful musical moments have died back).
True Sibelian elements are here, if on a more simplistic level than, say, in the infinitely subtle 1st movement of the 6th Symphony. But that later lapidary masterpiece exhibits some of the same features, contrasts and a similarly focussed climax. The same could also be said about the 2nd Symphony's 1st movement, some of whose energising motifs are rather reminiscent of the Maidens, and build into the main melodic climax in a similar way.

***
“Early works” of great artists can be fascinating - very inventive and imaginative, freer if looser in construction at the same time as they more obviously exhibit their influences. (The first version of the Sibelius Violin Concerto rewards a close listen…)

But that’s for another thread….

[edashtav]

[…]

“Early works” of great artists can be fascinating - very inventive and imaginative, freer if looser in construction at the same time as they more obviously exhibit their influences. (The first version of the Sibelius Violin Concerto rewards a close listen…)

But that’s for another thread….[/SIZE]

Yes, Jayne, early works and prototypes are fascinating and informative but they need to be approached with tolerance, care and knowledge. They are not the full deal and I worry lest they oust better and more rounded mature works from concert programmes. Publishing comparative CDs of variants is a good way to proceed.
I have different concerns about later versions, or revisions of early works: it is difficult for a mature composer to capture former enthusiasms and techniques which (she) has rejected in the light of experience. There's a risk of baby and bath-water syndrome.

Once again, I admired your detailed and loving description of the first Legend. Who was it who said that the most useful criticism is born of love? (I know that I'm guilty of the opposite in that I flaunt and become energised by my disbelief.)

[sidneyfox]

Yes, Jayne, early works and prototypes are fascinating and informative but they need to be approached with tolerance, care and knowledge.

Hadn't realised there is so much to it. I love Lemminkainen, but I now I see I was wrong because I enjoyed it without understanding it all. My approach was all wrong. I was careless, ignorant and had no concept of toleration. Classical music is so hard to access, when you think about it. I shouldn't have been so unthinking and reckless when I listened to this music. I feel a bit silly now. There I was thinking that this music is something to enjoy, but there is actually so much more to it. Very naive of me.

[Bryn]

Hadn't realised there is so much to it. I love Lemminkainen, but I now I see I was wrong because I enjoyed it without understanding it all. My approach was all wrong. I was careless, ignorant and had no concept of toleration. Classical music is so hard to access, when you think about it. I shouldn't have been so unthinking and reckless when I listened to this music. I feel a bit silly now. There I was thinking that this music is something to enjoy, but there is actually so much more to it. Very naive of me.

I too tend to listen with, and trust, my ear/brain tandem. Oh, and if the mature Sibelius thought of it a one of his symphonies, who am I to challenge him? That said, it's no Tapiola.

[sidneyfox]

I too tend to listen with, and trust, my ear/brain tandem. Oh, and if the mature Sibelius thought of it a one of his symphonies, who am I to challenge him? That said, it's no Tapiola.

But as I understand it, early works aren't "the full deal". They must be approached with care. It's too complicated and intellectual (therefore, even Sibelius didn't understand it like classical forum buffs do), I'm going back to rock music!

[cloughie]

I too tend to listen with, and trust, my ear/brain tandem. Oh, and if the mature Sibelius thought of it a one of his symphonies, who am I to challenge him? That said, it's no Tapiola.

Sorry Bryn, I’m trying to make sense of what you are saying there - must be some typos that need sorting, either that or I am not very bright - I must have been listening to too many early works - anyone else like Antar, Shost 1 ?

[Bryn]

Sorry Bryn, I’m trying to make sense of what you are saying there - must be some typos that need sorting, either that or I am not very bright - I must have been listening to too many early works - anyone else like Antar, Shost 1 ?

I was concurring with what I took to be sid's approach to the work, reminding that Sibelius had stated that he considered it to be one of his nine symphonies and suggesting that delightful as it is, he developed far further as a composer and went on to compose the masterpiece which is Tapiola.

Oh, and while I can't recall Antar, though I must have heard it, I too am very fond of Shost 1, especially in the Ormandy rerecording which introduced me to it (I bought the LP for the (1st) Cello Concerto).

[cloughie]

I was concurring with what I took to be sid's approach to the work, reminding that Sibelius had stated that he considered it to be one of his nine symphonies and suggesting that delightful as it is, he developed far further as a composer and went on to compose the masterpiece which is Tapiola.

Oh, and while I can't recall Antar, though I must have heard it, I too am very fond of Shost 1, especially in the Ormandy rerecording which introduced me to it (I bought the LP for the (1st) Cello Concerto).

Thanks, I agree with you and on his way along, he also composed 2 masterpieces which are En Saga and Pohjola’s Daughter.

[Bryn]

Thanks, I agree with you and on his way along, he also composed 2 masterpieces which are En Saga and Pohjola’s Daughter.

My Pye Golden Guinea (Barbirolli) of Pohjola's Daughter (coupled with the 5th Symphony) was played over and over in my youth.

On CD it is in this compilation:

[cloughie]

My Pye Golden Guinea (Barbirolli) of Pohjola's Daughter (coupled with the 5th Symphony) was played over and over in my youth.

On CD it is in this compilation:

LSO Collins and the 60s EMI Barbirolli still my first choices, Dorati’s EMI En Saga.

[LMcD]

I was concurring with what I took to be sid's approach to the work, reminding that Sibelius had stated that he considered it to be one of his nine symphonies and suggesting that delightful as it is, he developed far further as a composer and went on to compose the masterpiece which is Tapiola.

Oh, and while I can't recall Antar, though I must have heard it, I too am very fond of Shost 1, especially in the Ormandy rerecording which introduced me to it (I bought the LP for the (1st) Cello Concerto).

I share your enthusiasm - I have a very enjoyable 'LPO Live' recording of this and the 5th, conducted by Kurt Masur, recorded at the RFH in 2004.