BaL 18.05.19 - Sibelius: Lemminkäinen Suite, Op.22

[cloughie]

Not really. If the composer had had his way, we'd still only have two movements in total.

Which two - Swan and Return?

[LeMartinPecheur]

Which two - Swan and Return?

cloughie: this from Wiki deals with your question, and also throws light on the ordering issue:
"Sibelius later changed his musical goals and the work became an orchestral piece in four movements; the first two though were withdrawn by the composer soon after the premiere and were neither performed, nor added to the published score of the suite until 1935 (in 1947, Sibelius would switch the positions of the second and third movement, but in this article they are discussed in their original order)."
Originally the Swan was came third.

Interestingly, Tawastjerna says that in later life Sibelius talked of the suite as a symphony, so maybe there is a Mahler 6 issue lurking here if anyone wants it

[cloughie]

cloughie: this from Wiki deals with your question, and also throws light on the ordering issue:
"Sibelius later changed his musical goals and the work became an orchestral piece in four movements; the first two though were withdrawn by the composer soon after the premiere and were neither performed, nor added to the published score of the suite until 1935 (in 1947, Sibelius would switch the positions of the second and third movement, but in this article they are discussed in their original order)."
Originally the Swan was came third.

Interestingly, Tawastjerna says that in later life Sibelius talked of the suite as a symphony, so maybe there is a Mahler 6 issue lurking here if anyone wants it

Thanks LMP for that I shall continue to listen them with the Swan 3rd and with En Saga and Pohjola’s Daughter as Preludes! - try it when you have approx 80 minutes to spare.

[Mal]

Sorry to see that Gibson/SNO on Chandos is apparently no longer available - I've always rated Sir Alexander's Sibelius recordings very highly.

https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%206586

Bargain as well!

[MickyD]

I have only ever heard the Jarvi on BIS - bought it in a sale many years ago and fell in love with the work. Really looking forward to this BAL.

[BBMmk2]

I’m very surprised there’s not more recordings of this work!

[Serial_Apologist]

I’m very surprised there’s not more recordings of this work!

It was always rather a long work to squeeze onto an LP; maybe today the problem is the opposite, namely finding another suitable-length Sibelius work to fill the odd remaining 10 minute gap. I would think Sibelius rather difficult to programme alongside another composer for CD release, due to the singularity of his musical ethos, unless one went for one of his musical descendents, such as Aulis Sallinen.

[cloughie]

It was always rather a long work to squeeze onto an LP; maybe today the problem is the opposite, namely finding another suitable-length Sibelius work to fill the odd remaining 10 minute gap. I would think Sibelius rather difficult to programme alongside another composer for CD release, due to the singularity of his musical ethos, unless one went for one of his musical descendents, such as Aulis Sallinen.

Hang on S_A it only lasts 45 to 50 minutes and there are plenty of Sib’s tone poems to fit on afore or aft!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Hang on S_A it only lasts 45 to 50 minutes and there are plenty of Sib’s tone poems to fit on afore or aft!

- all the available CD versions have generous couplings; some of them of similarly less-well-known Symphonic poems such as Pohjola's Daughter, Luonnotar, The Bard.

It could be an awkward fit on LP, although, ironically, if Swan were played second, the fit would be ideal for LP: c 26mins and 22mins. But it's over 30 years since CDs replaced LPs.

Does anyone know if the scores of the four pieces have been published in a single volume? I can only find separate editions.

[Pulcinella]

- all the available CD versions have generous couplings; some of them of similarly less-well-known Symphonic poems such as Pohjola's Daughter, Luonnotar, The Bard.

It could be an awkward fit on LP, although, ironically, if Swan were played second, the fit would be ideal for LP: c 26mins and 22mins. But it's over 30 years since CDs replaced LPs.

Does anyone know if the scores of the four pieces have been published in a single volume? I can only find separate editions.

Looks like you're right, but the numbering does at least give the 'running order'.

https://www.prestomusic.com/sheet-music/search?search_query=Sibelius+lemminkainen+suite

[verismissimo]

… Oddly enough, I found Vanska's second Lahti SO recording** one of the less successful of his excellent Sibelius series - for me it lacked some inspiration...a bit of a puzzle there, even with hi-res to help out...the c/w Wood-Nymph and En Saga were probably the best things about that album....but I shall try to revisit.

** the 1999 release included original versions & appendices, but was beset by technical problems with the sound, as BIS themselves had to admit...
Interesting though.

I have the same impression of the Lahti/Vanska, Jayne. Will join you in revisiting.

[Master Jacques]

Does anyone know if the scores of the four pieces have been published in a single volume? I can only find separate editions.

Five years ago I luckily picked up an excellent Russian edition of all four, in hardback, a conductor-score, with a pretty woodcut on the cover. The Swan is placed third. But as that dates from 1960 it is possibly a little hard to source! I suspect the problem with publishing all four together in the West was that, as The Maidens and Tuonela were withdrawn until Sibelius revised them in (as I recall) the late 1930s, those two had initially at least a different publisher from the two more famous movements.

[richardfinegold]

I’m surprised that there is only one Bergland version. Are there others that are nla? With Bournemouth, perhaps?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Looks like you're right, but the numbering does at least give the 'running order'.

https://www.prestomusic.com/sheet-mu...inkainen+suite

Five years ago I luckily picked up an excellent Russian edition of all four, in hardback, a conductor-score, with a pretty woodcut on the cover. The Swan is placed third. But as that dates from 1960 it is possibly a little hard to source! I suspect the problem with publishing all four together in the West was that, as The Maidens and Tuonela were withdrawn until Sibelius revised them in (as I recall) the late 1930s, those two had initially at least a different publisher from the two more famous movements.

- to you both. I notice that there is a complete Suite on the Presto list: £217.80 reduced to £163.35! No doubt a bargain, but ... (Looks like I'll have to fork out for the two scores [the ones MJ mentions that Sibelius held back] I don't have and do some pretty rapid book swapping between the four Movements. All done at home, by the way - I don't take scores into concerts )

I think that there's a similar problem with Smetana's Ma Vlast, too. Oops! No - a quick look at the Presto catalogue and there's a Barenreiter edition - at £43.50 + P&P --- I don't like the work that much!

[Pulcinella]

- to you both. I notice that there is a complete Suite on the Presto list: £217.80 reduced to £163.35! No doubt a bargain, but ... (Looks like I'll have to fork out for the two scores [the ones MJ mentions that Sibelius held back] I don't have and do some pretty rapid book swapping between the four Movements. All done at home, by the way - I don't take scores into concerts )

I think that there's a similar problem with Smetana's Ma Vlast, too. Oops! No - a quick look at the Presto catalogue and there's a Barenreiter edition - at £43.50 + P&P --- I don't like the work that much!

Oh! I hadn't spotted the full score (special offer) of the whole suite!