BaL 18.05.19 - Sibelius: Lemminkäinen Suite, Op.22

[sidneyfox]

I despise Roger Scruton and UKIP but I also have very little time for those who accept the second rate and use ageist tropes .

Well I hope that UKIP disappears up its own collective posterior*, but to despise Roger Scruton (or even UKIP) is a bit worrying. Such untrained emotions allow people to meet out all sorts unpleasant punishments for people they don't agree with. We must be tolerant in general, and measured in our criticisms.

*Sadly UKIP's age profile is younger than this forum's and is also able to attract new active members, unlike this forum, so regrettably I'm not holding my breath for its demise

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Well, not wishing to scare you any further, sidney - and, as you obviously listened to, and thoroughly enjoyed, yesterday's BaL - what were the highlights for you?

(Oh, and, it's "mete out", by the way.)

[sidneyfox]

Well, not wishing to scare you any further, sidney - and, as you obviously listened to, and thoroughly enjoyed, yesterday's BaL - what were the highlights for you?

I'm not so much scared, more inclined to fade into the background again and let echo chamber to itself.

I don't think there were any highlights as such, but I enjoyed listening along to the conversation. All the excerpts were good and any one of them could have been recommended to a newbie, in my opinion. BaL is a R3 highlight in my opinion.

(Oh, and, it's "mete out", by the way.)

Sorry to disappoint - it was spell check error - but if it makes you feel good!

[mikealdren]

It's about how others see us. It means that when members post, explicitly pleading for "old fashioned" BaLs as Barbirollions did; when Eine Alpensinfonie agrees that 'going back in time' is what is wanted, because BaLs were better back then (as per his recent post on the topic); if when faced with a changed format we echo one-another, back-slap and bemoan how "BaL used to be about quality" (not sure what measurement is being used here); then we come across as very scarily as a sort of 'Musical-UKIP' group - with Roger Scruton-type aesthetics about quality. Was it Michael Oakshott who said 'we are conservative about the things we love'?

Just take it on the chin.

I'm glad you explained that, I was wondering what UKIP's views on BaL are as, Brexit apart, they don't seem to have views on most of the key issues of our time.

[sidneyfox]

I'm glad you explained that, I was wondering what UKIP's views on BaL are as, Brexit apart, they don't seem to have views on most of the key issues of our time.

That's my point. It's the same mindset in this forum - but about music.

(as per the Michael Oakshott reference)


,

[BBMmk2]

Ditto, sticking with Gibson/SNO

Oh, I’ll have to look at this!

[silvestrione]

Just been round my local bird reserve for dawn chorus, JTW, and the wrens were in terrific voice, and probably the commonest bird!

Sorry, off topic I know, though there is birdsong in the Sibelius, done well in the LA version, and also, it's a positive post, perhaps needed just now!

[cloughie]

Three of my favoured recordings - Kamu, Stein and Jensen seem to have been ignored!

[Master Jacques]

I'm not sure that AM "sets himself up as a Scandi expert"... [snip] ... (Have you a link to the Spectator Opera piece please? When was it? It seems odd that AM, who reviews Opera regularly for various publications, should write such a piece .. maybe it was ironically/humorously intended anyway?)[/I]]

His Twitter profile reads: "Journalist. Critic. Nordic music specialist. Performance architecture nerd. @TheOperaAwards juror. Scandinavia stringer for Opera, Opera Now and Opera News." He definitely promotes himself as a Scandi specialist, though not sure how often he actually writes anything for Opera, at least.

His latest tweet: "Hello London! Building a Library on Sibelius's Lemminkäinen Legends which I AM TELLING YOU is a masterpiece. Broadcast 18/5. #Sibelius #Lemminkainen"

His Gramophone profile tells a similar story: "Andrew Mellor ... writes widely on opera, classical music and Nordic culture for magazines, newspapers, orchestras and opera companies in the UK and in Denmark, Finland and Norway"

I did have a link to his New Statesman article attacking opera - sorry to have impugned The Spectator! - but that seems to have disappeared now:

https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/lifestyle/2012/07/classical-music-should-be-about-more-elite-parties-and-private-schools

Perhaps he took it down once he started taking the shilling on opera juries et al.

You can get the tone from the title ("Classical Music should be about more than Elite parties and private schools"), I expect. Whoever said it was about either of these things? It was one of those safe, attack-the-oldie-rich-audience pieces of nonsense, saying that opera had to stop being about kings and queens (in the old sense) and concentrate more on "relevance" to the life of the "ordinary person". I get the impression that Mr Mellor wouldn't know an "ordinary person" if he fell over one at the Smörgåsbord, but that's me being naughty.

[richardfinegold]

Strictly speaking, a 'Scandiexpert' shouldn't be expected to know that much about Finland or things Finnish, as Finland is not part of Scandinavia. This may be seen as nit-picking by some, but a former work colleague from Finland left me in no doubt as to the Finns' view on this, to them important, distinction.

Finland isn’t part of Scandinavia?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Just been round my local bird reserve for dawn chorus, JTW, and the wrens were in terrific voice, and probably the commonest bird!
Sorry, off topic I know, though there is birdsong in the Sibelius, done well in the LA version, and also, it's a positive post, perhaps needed just now!

Oooooh - plenty of positive posts on this Thread, silves; just not in response to the programme. The work is a pretty damn fine one, and there are several excellent recordings of it. It deserved better treatment on BaL - and, indeed, got it in the first 40-ish posts in this Thread.

[Master Jacques]

It's about how others see us. It means that when members post, explicitly pleading for "old fashioned" BaLs as Barbirollions did; when Eine Alpensinfonie agrees that 'going back in time' is what is wanted, because BaLs were better back then (as per his recent post on the topic); if when faced with a changed format we echo one-another, back-slap and bemoan how "BaL used to be about quality" (not sure what measurement is being used here); then we come across as very scarily as a sort of 'Musical-UKIP' group - with Roger Scruton-type aesthetics about quality. Was it Michael Oakshott who said 'we are conservative about the things we love'?

Just take it on the chin.

Thank you for clarifying what you meant, which boils down - I think - to "It's about how others see us". As pandering to public perception ("how others see us") got Radio 3 and the country into the mess we're all in, I think we should be foolish not to stand up for quality when we see it being degraded.

Oh yes, "quality". How to measure it? It's easier to do negatively, as we recognise it when we hear it (Anna Pickard yesterday). But if a broadcaster is peppering their chat with "sort of", "kind of", "like", "so...", "fairly..." and all the rest of the diluting chaff and inelegant verbiage about "structure" of performances - as opposed to the pieces themselves - which we got from Andrew Mellor yesterday, then I for one am absolutely sure that "quality" has gone out of the window.

Read The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance for a better exposition of the qualitative nexus - highly recommended.

[Master Jacques]

Strictly speaking, a 'Scandiexpert' shouldn't be expected to know that much about Finland or things Finnish, as Finland is not part of Scandinavia. This may be seen as nit-picking by some, but a former work colleague from Finland left me in no doubt as to the Finns' view on this, to them important, distinction.

Just to nit-pick myself, Elias Lönnrot was of Swedish stock (as you know, at that time Finland was part of Sweden, which was part of Sibelius's motivation for working on the opera which led to these four pieces coming into existence) so it is surprising that a self-proclaimed "Scandi Expert" (based in Copenhagen) got the pronunciation so completely wrong.

[Master Jacques]

The work is a pretty damn fine one, and there are several excellent recordings of it. It deserved better treatment on BaL - and, indeed, got it in the first 40-ish posts in this Thread.

Absolutely! And I too am sorry that I forgot the wonderful Kamu performance, which is "imprinted" with me from way back, too - though I don't return to it as often as I do to Gibson and Franck.

[Pulcinella]

Absolutely! And I too am sorry that I forgot the wonderful Kamu performance, which is "imprinted" with me from way back, too - though I don't return to it as often as I do to Gibson and Franck.

This is the 2CD set I have with the Kamu performance included.

https://www.amazon.fr/Splendeurs-du-Nord-Edvard-Grieg/dp/B000025WYN/ref=sr_1_2?__mk_fr_FR=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=Splendeurs+du+nord&qid=1558264206&s=gateway&sr=8-2

No idea where I stumbled across it.