BaL 18.05.19 - Sibelius: Lemminkäinen Suite, Op.22

[DracoM]

The one thing that can be said for these infernal twofers is that Forumistas with real expert knowledge appear and do the job admirably.

[visualnickmos]

The one thing that can be said for these infernal twofers is that Forumistas with real expert knowledge appear and do the job admirably.

Very true, very true. Every cloud.......

[LeMartinPecheur]

Did they get a mention?

No!

[verismissimo]

Lot of cut and paste whinging to wade through hereabouts again.

[Barbirollians]

Lot of cut and paste whinging to wade through hereabouts again.

Well if rubbish is going to be repeated no surprise that the same criticism is repeated .

[sidneyfox]

Lot of cut and paste whinging to wade through hereabouts again.

Indeed.

They do go on and on every week - Alpensinfonie wants to go back in time (he says) and Barbaraillions recently pleaded for 'old fashioned' BaLs. I think they are Musical-Ukippers and very Roger Scruton


For the record, I shall be sticking with Gibson/SNO, Vanska/Lahti and Sakari/Iceland SO. Might give the new Chandos Oramo a punt when it comes out.

[Barbirollians]

Indeed.

They do go on and on every week - Alpensinfonie wants to go back in time (he says) and Barbaraillions recently pleaded for 'old fashioned' BaLs. I think they are Musical-Ukippers and very Roger Scruton


For the record, I shall be sticking with Gibson/SNO, Vanska/Lahti and Sakari/Iceland SO. Might give the new Chandos Oramo a punt when it comes out.

I despise Roger Scruton and UKIP but I also have very little time for those who accept the second rate and use ageist tropes .

[Master Jacques]

Have you not read his Gramophone articles and reviews on various Scandi composers and a wide range of contemporary music? Most of which are very engagingly written and have led me to several discoveries. (e.g. Aulis Sallinen).
This very month he's done an excellent Collection survey on the Nielsen Violin Concerto with some fascinating and unexpected conclusions...

I'll catch up with this BaL later.....

Thank you Jayne, I now see that Andrew Mellor sets himself up as a 'Scandi expert', in which case the fact that he hasn't ever bothered to learn how to pronounce the name of the writer of the Kalevala properly seems even more baffling! I can't think that would win him many brownie points in Finland or Sweden.

I don't read Gramophone, so that's why I've missed him there. The only article by him that I did come across (in The Spectator) was a particularly shallow piece of poseur nonsense, about how elitist, 'irrelevant' and stupid opera was: he seemed insincere to me then, and his inarticulate display this morning did not make me think any more highly of him. Some critics one trusts, some one doesn't - and for me, this man is firmly in the latter box.

On a more pleasant (if OT) note, how nice to find you are a fellow Sallinen nut. He's been one of my favourite composers since I first heard The Horseman on LP in 1979, and I had the pleasure of meeting him when he came over to see his Kullervo opera in London some years ago. His music - especially his operatic output - has been soul food for me these 40 years, and long may be flourish!

[sidneyfox]

I despise Roger Scruton and UKIP but I also have very little time for those who accept the second rate and use ageist tropes .

Good night

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

A reminder of one of the Forum T&Cs

Please treat other members respectfully, even/especially if you disagree with what they are saying; and please do not start topics or post messages which are designed to be provocative or which explicitly or implicitly target or disparage other members, individually or as a group.

[Master Jacques]

You've got a lot in common with RS and the take on BaL in here is soo Musical-UKIP!

What does that even mean, sidneyfox?

My own favourites, for what it is worth, are Gibson/SNO (despite some fragile playing, for the most moving sense of homecoming), Järvi Snr. on DG (superlative sound and instrumental clarity), and Mikko Franck on Ondine for the most poetically intelligent and wide-ranging reading of any I've heard. Oddly, the idea of "poetry" never raised its head this morning, in the chit-chat about these four, related tone poems. The work - contra BaL - is absolutely not symphonic, nor did Sibelius ever intend it that way. That is where Mr Mellor started off on the wrong foot, and regularly shot himself in the same limb (judging from what I heard of the banter).

[Master Jacques]

I also have very little time for those who accept the second rate and use ageist tropes .

Seconded. BaL used to be about quality, which has gone by the board since these twofers hijacked the format. Of course, some people may prefer banter and chit chat to analysis and considered talks - and we should not underestimate the pressures on R3 and R4 executives to slide ever more downmarket, towards shorter attention spans and a (demonstrably non-existent) 'youth' listener cohort. I know that some of the producers at least find the populist changes as distasteful as any contributor here. But they need to stay in their jobs.

[jayne lee wilson]

Thank you Jayne, I now see that Andrew Mellor sets himself up as a 'Scandi expert', in which case the fact that he hasn't ever bothered to learn how to pronounce the name of the writer of the Kalevala properly seems even more baffling! I can't think that would win him many brownie points in Finland or Sweden.

I don't read Gramophone, so that's why I've missed him there. The only article by him that I did come across (in The Spectator) was a particularly shallow piece of poseur nonsense, about how elitist, 'irrelevant' and stupid opera was: he seemed insincere to me then, and his inarticulate display this morning did not make me think any more highly of him. Some critics one trusts, some one doesn't - and for me, this man is firmly in the latter box.

On a more pleasant (if OT) note, how nice to find you are a fellow Sallinen nut. He's been one of my favourite composers since I first heard The Horseman on LP in 1979, and I had the pleasure of meeting him when he came over to see his Kullervo opera in London some years ago. His music - especially his operatic output - has been soul food for me these 40 years, and long may be flourish!

I'm not sure that AM "sets himself up as a Scandi expert"... he simply loves and writes well about a wide range of such music, and I've enjoyed, and learned a lot from his consistently fine writings and reviews (including regular reviews of some little known recent composers from the north). I never knew much about Sallinen until his article, which led me to buy the gorgeous CPO boxset of the symphonies. Who does one always, or even often, agree with anyway? Isn't it more stimulating to consider oppositional opinions? It seems a shame to dismiss him on the basis of one or two encounters.

Shame about pronunciation yes - broadcasters should take the trouble to get it right, but personally having checked so many such things on Google (and been ashamed at my wrong assumptions, or forgotten the correct one even after checking ) I wouldn't make too much of it. I'm afraid I wouldn't have noticed the problem you picked out in this BaL.

I think it is a little odd of you to critique this without having heard the complete BaL, but never mind, it isn't worth taking it further really.... I'm off to hear the Paavo Jarvi (whose recordings I nearly always prefer to his Dad's...)... or perhaps later tonight (enjoying Roxy Music on BBC4 now), if I can fit it in before the dawn chorus. It seems sacrilegious to play music once Blackbirds Robins etc gain momentum...
(Worried not to have heard any Wrens this year yet...that wonderfully smallest, and loudest, of songbirds...)

(Have you a link to the Spectator Opera piece please? When was it? It seems odd that AM, who reviews Opera regularly for various publications, should write such a piece .. maybe it was ironically/humorously intended anyway?)
Better not say how I feel about Opera......... birdsong always seems sweeter to my poor vocally hypersensitive ears...)

[LMcD]

Strictly speaking, a 'Scandiexpert' shouldn't be expected to know that much about Finland or things Finnish, as Finland is not part of Scandinavia. This may be seen as nit-picking by some, but a former work colleague from Finland left me in no doubt as to the Finns' view on this, to them important, distinction.

[sidneyfox]

What does that even mean, sidneyfox?

It's about how others see us. It means that when members post, explicitly pleading for "old fashioned" BaLs as Barbirollions did; when Eine Alpensinfonie agrees that 'going back in time' is what is wanted, because BaLs were better back then (as per his recent post on the topic); if when faced with a changed format we echo one-another, back-slap and bemoan how "BaL used to be about quality" (not sure what measurement is being used here); then we come across as very scarily as a sort of 'Musical-UKIP' group - with Roger Scruton-type aesthetics about quality. Was it Michael Oakshott who said 'we are conservative about the things we love'?

Just take it on the chin.