BaL 18.05.19 - Sibelius: Lemminkäinen Suite, Op.22

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  • cloughie
    Full Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 22270

    #16
    Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
    Not really. If the composer had had his way, we'd still only have two movements in total.

    Which two - Swan and Return?

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    • LeMartinPecheur
      Full Member
      • Apr 2007
      • 4717

      #17
      Originally posted by cloughie View Post
      Which two - Swan and Return?
      cloughie: this from Wiki deals with your question, and also throws light on the ordering issue:
      "Sibelius later changed his musical goals and the work became an orchestral piece in four movements; the first two though were withdrawn by the composer soon after the premiere and were neither performed, nor added to the published score of the suite until 1935 (in 1947, Sibelius would switch the positions of the second and third movement, but in this article they are discussed in their original order)."
      Originally the Swan was came third.

      Interestingly, Tawastjerna says that in later life Sibelius talked of the suite as a symphony, so maybe there is a Mahler 6 issue lurking here if anyone wants it
      I keep hitting the Escape key, but I'm still here!

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      • cloughie
        Full Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 22270

        #18
        Originally posted by LeMartinPecheur View Post
        cloughie: this from Wiki deals with your question, and also throws light on the ordering issue:
        "Sibelius later changed his musical goals and the work became an orchestral piece in four movements; the first two though were withdrawn by the composer soon after the premiere and were neither performed, nor added to the published score of the suite until 1935 (in 1947, Sibelius would switch the positions of the second and third movement, but in this article they are discussed in their original order)."
        Originally the Swan was came third.

        Interestingly, Tawastjerna says that in later life Sibelius talked of the suite as a symphony, so maybe there is a Mahler 6 issue lurking here if anyone wants it
        Thanks LMP for that I shall continue to listen them with the Swan 3rd and with En Saga and Pohjola’s Daughter as Preludes! - try it when you have approx 80 minutes to spare.

        Comment

        • Mal
          Full Member
          • Dec 2016
          • 892

          #19
          Originally posted by LMcD View Post
          Sorry to see that Gibson/SNO on Chandos is apparently no longer available - I've always rated Sir Alexander's Sibelius recordings very highly.


          Bargain as well!

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          • MickyD
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 4940

            #20
            I have only ever heard the Jarvi on BIS - bought it in a sale many years ago and fell in love with the work. Really looking forward to this BAL.

            Comment

            • BBMmk2
              Late Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 20908

              #21
              I’m very surprised there’s not more recordings of this work!
              Don’t cry for me
              I go where music was born

              J S Bach 1685-1750

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              • Serial_Apologist
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 38181

                #22
                Originally posted by BBMmk2 View Post
                I’m very surprised there’s not more recordings of this work!
                It was always rather a long work to squeeze onto an LP; maybe today the problem is the opposite, namely finding another suitable-length Sibelius work to fill the odd remaining 10 minute gap. I would think Sibelius rather difficult to programme alongside another composer for CD release, due to the singularity of his musical ethos, unless one went for one of his musical descendents, such as Aulis Sallinen.

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                • cloughie
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 22270

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                  It was always rather a long work to squeeze onto an LP; maybe today the problem is the opposite, namely finding another suitable-length Sibelius work to fill the odd remaining 10 minute gap. I would think Sibelius rather difficult to programme alongside another composer for CD release, due to the singularity of his musical ethos, unless one went for one of his musical descendents, such as Aulis Sallinen.
                  Hang on S_A it only lasts 45 to 50 minutes and there are plenty of Sib’s tone poems to fit on afore or aft!

                  Comment

                  • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                    Gone fishin'
                    • Sep 2011
                    • 30163

                    #24
                    Originally posted by cloughie View Post
                    Hang on S_A it only lasts 45 to 50 minutes and there are plenty of Sib’s tone poems to fit on afore or aft!
                    - all the available CD versions have generous couplings; some of them of similarly less-well-known Symphonic poems such as Pohjola's Daughter, Luonnotar, The Bard.

                    It could be an awkward fit on LP, although, ironically, if Swan were played second, the fit would be ideal for LP: c 26mins and 22mins. But it's over 30 years since CDs replaced LPs.

                    Does anyone know if the scores of the four pieces have been published in a single volume? I can only find separate editions.
                    [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                    Comment

                    • Pulcinella
                      Host
                      • Feb 2014
                      • 11383

                      #25
                      Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                      - all the available CD versions have generous couplings; some of them of similarly less-well-known Symphonic poems such as Pohjola's Daughter, Luonnotar, The Bard.

                      It could be an awkward fit on LP, although, ironically, if Swan were played second, the fit would be ideal for LP: c 26mins and 22mins. But it's over 30 years since CDs replaced LPs.

                      Does anyone know if the scores of the four pieces have been published in a single volume? I can only find separate editions.
                      Looks like you're right, but the numbering does at least give the 'running order'.

                      Comment

                      • verismissimo
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 2957

                        #26
                        Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post

                        … Oddly enough, I found Vanska's second Lahti SO recording** one of the less successful of his excellent Sibelius series - for me it lacked some inspiration...a bit of a puzzle there, even with hi-res to help out...the c/w Wood-Nymph and En Saga were probably the best things about that album....but I shall try to revisit.

                        ** the 1999 release included original versions & appendices, but was beset by technical problems with the sound, as BIS themselves had to admit...
                        Interesting though.
                        I have the same impression of the Lahti/Vanska, Jayne. Will join you in revisiting.

                        Comment

                        • Master Jacques
                          Full Member
                          • Feb 2012
                          • 2126

                          #27
                          Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                          Does anyone know if the scores of the four pieces have been published in a single volume? I can only find separate editions.
                          Five years ago I luckily picked up an excellent Russian edition of all four, in hardback, a conductor-score, with a pretty woodcut on the cover. The Swan is placed third. But as that dates from 1960 it is possibly a little hard to source! I suspect the problem with publishing all four together in the West was that, as The Maidens and Tuonela were withdrawn until Sibelius revised them in (as I recall) the late 1930s, those two had initially at least a different publisher from the two more famous movements.

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                          • richardfinegold
                            Full Member
                            • Sep 2012
                            • 7898

                            #28
                            I’m surprised that there is only one Bergland version. Are there others that are nla? With Bournemouth, perhaps?

                            Comment

                            • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                              Gone fishin'
                              • Sep 2011
                              • 30163

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                              Looks like you're right, but the numbering does at least give the 'running order'.

                              https://www.prestomusic.com/sheet-mu...inkainen+suite
                              Originally posted by Master Jacques View Post
                              Five years ago I luckily picked up an excellent Russian edition of all four, in hardback, a conductor-score, with a pretty woodcut on the cover. The Swan is placed third. But as that dates from 1960 it is possibly a little hard to source! I suspect the problem with publishing all four together in the West was that, as The Maidens and Tuonela were withdrawn until Sibelius revised them in (as I recall) the late 1930s, those two had initially at least a different publisher from the two more famous movements.
                              - to you both. I notice that there is a complete Suite on the Presto list: £217.80 reduced to £163.35! No doubt a bargain, but ... (Looks like I'll have to fork out for the two scores [the ones MJ mentions that Sibelius held back] I don't have and do some pretty rapid book swapping between the four Movements. All done at home, by the way - I don't take scores into concerts )

                              I think that there's a similar problem with Smetana's Ma Vlast, too. Oops! No - a quick look at the Presto catalogue and there's a Barenreiter edition - at £43.50 + P&P --- I don't like the work that much!
                              [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                              Comment

                              • Pulcinella
                                Host
                                • Feb 2014
                                • 11383

                                #30
                                Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                                - to you both. I notice that there is a complete Suite on the Presto list: £217.80 reduced to £163.35! No doubt a bargain, but ... (Looks like I'll have to fork out for the two scores [the ones MJ mentions that Sibelius held back] I don't have and do some pretty rapid book swapping between the four Movements. All done at home, by the way - I don't take scores into concerts )

                                I think that there's a similar problem with Smetana's Ma Vlast, too. Oops! No - a quick look at the Presto catalogue and there's a Barenreiter edition - at £43.50 + P&P --- I don't like the work that much!
                                Oh! I hadn't spotted the full score (special offer) of the whole suite!

                                Comment

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