BaL 18.05.19 - Sibelius: Lemminkäinen Suite, Op.22

[edashtav]

But as I understand it, early works aren't "the full deal". They must be approached with care. It's too complicated and intellectual (therefore, even Sibelius didn't understand it like classical forum buffs do), I'm going back to rock music!

As Sibelius said, sidneyfox,

"Pay no attention to what the critics say;
no statue has ever been erected to a critic."

To bryn, I must confess that I don't possess two brains, but I note that I own two miniatures scores of Tapiola. Would you like one?

[vinteuil]

As Sibelius said, sidneyfox,

"Pay no attention to what the critics say;
no statue has ever been erected to a critic."

... he was, of course, wrong.

.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-england-london-samuel-johnson-statue-by-stclementdanes-church-in-strand-19707172.html

.

[Bryn]

... he was, of course, wrong.



https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-en...-19707172.html

Or indeed this fellow:

[vinteuil]

Or ideed this fellow:

... well, if we're playing this game :

http://www.hberlioz.com/LaCote/Statue.html

and

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/395472411002344009/?lp=true

.

.

[jayne lee wilson]

... well, if we're playing this game :

http://www.hberlioz.com/LaCote/Statue.html

and

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/395472411002344009/?lp=true

.

.

Are Cats the best critics? I can well believe it.....(of how to live, at least...but are they sentimental, or naive...? Gosh, big existential questions...)

[verismissimo]

"Pay no attention to what the critics say;
no statue has ever been erected to a critic."

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-a-bronze-sculpture-of-george-bernard-shaw-by-prince-paolo-troubetzkoy-90868569.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=E0ECB0BD-9E65-43F9-979D-537CBAE418BD&p=280940&n=0&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo%3dbar%26st%3d0%26pn%3d1%26ps%3d100%26sortby%3d2%26resultview%3dsortbyPopular%26npgs%3d0%26qt%3dstatue%2520of%2520george%2520bernard%2520shaw%26qt_raw%3dstatue%2520of%2520george%2520bernard%2520shaw%26lic%3d3%26mr%3d0%26pr%3d0%26ot%3d0%26creative%3d%26ag%3d0%26hc%3d0%26pc%3d%26blackwhite%3d%26cutout%3d%26tbar%3d1%26et%3d0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3d0%26loc%3d0%26imgt%3d0%26dtfr%3d%26dtto%3d%26size%3d0xFF%26archive%3d1%26groupid%3d%26pseudoid%3d%26a%3d%26cdid%3d%26cdsrt%3d%26name%3d%26qn%3d%26apalib%3d%26apalic%3d%26lightbox%3d%26gname%3d%26gtype%3d%26xstx%3d0%26simid%3d%26saveQry%3d%26editorial%3d1%26nu%3d%26t%3d%26edoptin%3d%26customgeoip%3d%26cap%3d1%26cbstore%3d1%26vd%3d0%26lb%3d%26fi%3d2%26edrf%3d%26ispremium%3d1%26flip%3d0%26pl%3d

[Master Jacques]

Just to say "thank you" to all who pointed me towards the various CD incarnations of the Kamu set. My package from The Polar Bear arrived this morning, and it was a pleasure to follow the beloved old performances, after some years neglecting the worn-out LP.

I am not sure that Kamu's Maidens has ever been bettered for the wonderfully fluid continuity with which he invests it. In his hands it seems a very tight piece structurally: what's wonderful is the way Sibelius manipulates his melodic material and the joy the players under Kamu brings to that. The piece is all about rhythm and melodic variation, for me, not tonal progression. Jayne's point about its minimalist aspects (as so often in Sibelius's tone poem mode) is well taken. I don't think adventures in tonality matter much, if at all, in this particular Legend. It's drama, first and last, and the particular drama of youth, sensuality and sexual play it evokes is wonderfully conveyed.

I am less taken nowadays with Kamu's cor anglais soloist in The Swan, reedy verging on quackery. This is probably the least successful of the four movements in this recording.

(As for the rather disconcerting post criticising contributors for being critics ... what else do we listen with, if not our brains? Note: I mean actively "listen", as opposed to simply experiencing the physical sensation of noise, which doesn't appeal to me - at least - in the slightest. Though that, too, is processed upstairs. Like others, I am delighted and grateful to read the differing analytical contributions on this thread. Unless we develop our critical faculty, we are destined to remain mere open-mouthed consumers.)

[verismissimo]

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-a-...ip%3d0%26pl%3d

Sibelius is unquestionably a leader in the front rank of symphonic composers. He has got out of the ruts worn by his predecessors far more completely than Brahms got away from Beethoven, or even Richard Strauss from Wagner. If someone would only burn Finlandia he would come to our young people as an entirely original inventor of a new art form and a new harmony technique.
George Bernard Shaw, in the Manchester Guardian, November 1, 1938.

[pastoralguy]

Sibelius is unquestionably a leader in the front rank of symphonic composers. He has got out of the ruts worn by his predecessors far more completely than Brahms got away from Beethoven, or even Richard Strauss from Wagner. If someone would only burn Finlandia he would come to our young people as an entirely original inventor of a new art form and a new harmony technique.
George Bernard Shaw, in the Manchester Guardian, November 1, 1938.

Finlandia is one of those works that I groan when I hear it announced on the radio but get sucked into the performance. We used to play it often in our local schools orchestra and it was the start of my love of the great Finnish composer's music.

[jayne lee wilson]

Finlandia is one of those works that I groan when I hear it announced on the radio but get sucked into the performance. We used to play it often in our local schools orchestra and it was the start of my love of the great Finnish composer's music.

Yes, you don't need to burn it (!) just see it or hear it in perspective...(e.g. Symphony No.2)....
Or wave your arms about and be a slave to the rhythm...

[Bryn]

Yes, you don't need to burn it (!) just see it or hear it in perspective...(e.g. Symphony No.2)....
Or wave your arms about and be a slave to the rhythm...

This suits me fine:

[Master Jacques]

Finlandia is one of those works that I groan when I hear it announced on the radio but get sucked into the performance. We used to play it often in our local schools orchestra and it was the start of my love of the great Finnish composer's music.

Yes, it never fails. That's something to do with being one of the best tunes ever written!

[gradus]

This suits me fine:

Great singing that reminds me of the Finnish mail voice choir joint winners of Let The People Sing some years ago who performed this along with the winning women's choir from the UK. Stirring stuff.

[Master Jacques]

... reminding that Sibelius had stated that he considered it to be one of his nine symphonies and suggesting that delightful as it is, he developed far further as a composer and went on to compose the masterpiece which is Tapiola.

Sibelius's remark about "nine symphonies" was not serious, but a tongue-in-cheek riposte to one of those tedious "when are you going to give us your eighth symphony, maestro?" questions from people who ought to have known better than to ask. It shouldn't be taken literally, or seriously.

More meaningful is the remark he made before tentatively starting writing his actual first symphony. In 1894 he wrote (to his wife, Aino) that "I believe I am above all a tone painter and poet. Liszt's view of music is the one to which I am closest. That is, the symphonic poem".

Those symphonies were a huge strain to his powers, as we know; and the "poems" such as the four Lemminkäinen legends - not to mention those supreme, later ones - remained for Sibelius a much more natural form of expression. Even the symphonies contain much that is strictly pictorial (e.g. the "swans' wings" in the fifth).

[Bryn]

Sibelius's remark about "nine symphonies" was not serious, but a tongue-in-cheek riposte to one of those tedious "when are you going to give us your eighth symphony, maestro?" questions from people who ought to have known better than to ask. It shouldn't be taken literally, or seriously.

More meaningful is the remark he made before tentatively starting writing his actual first symphony. In 1894 he wrote (to his wife, Aino) that "I believe I am above all a tone painter and poet. Liszt's view of music is the one to which I am closest. That is, the symphonic poem".

Those symphonies were a huge strain to his powers, as we know; and the "poems" such as the four Lemminkäinen legends - not to mention those supreme, later ones - remained for Sibelius a much more natural form of expression. Even the symphonies contain much that is strictly pictorial (e.g. the "swans' wings" in the fifth).

You are Sheldon Cooper and I claim my £5.