BaL 4.05.19 - Beethoven: Piano Trios Op. 1

[Edgy 2]

Wonderful works! I too have the Beaux Arts and also Zukerman, du Pré & Barenboim.

Same here Stan.
I don't listen to BaL anymore though.

[Mal]

Beaux Arts very strong in Op.1. I don’t much care for their Archduke, but that isn’t the consideration here. The Naxos set is very worthwhile

I agree they are very strong in Op.1, but also liked their Archduke, although there is more competition here. I compared Archduke's a few years ago and preferred Stuttgart trio on Naxos to everyone else Are you referring to them? I think Naxos have produced at least one other set. Also would people please specify which BA they prefer, as they are quite different

[richardfinegold]

I agree they are very strong in Op.1, but also liked their Archduke, although there is more competition here. I compared Archduke's a few years ago and preferred Stuttgart trio on Naxos to everyone else Are you referring to them? I think Naxos have produced at least one other set. Also would people please specify which BA they prefer, as they are quite different

In my case, that would be Stuttgart on Naxos, and the first BA cycle.

[CallMePaul]

I have the Sepek/ Queras/ Steier version of op1/3 (coupled with the Ghost trio (op70/1) but did not know that they had recorded the other op1 trios. I will listen to this BA|L with interrest, but I dfo not find myself enjoying performances of chamber music from this period featuring modern pianos to my taste. I think that it is probably a question of balance - the modern piano can dominate even those sections where the composer did not intend it. I do not find this a problem where a fortepiano is played in chamber music of the late 18th - early - to - mid 19th centuries. I would therefore probably be looking for a "period" performance of this group of trios.

[Mal]

Just listened to BA2 OP1/1 again, the adagio cantabile is certainly "lyrical singing", but it's more largo di molto (very slow and dignified), unless there's something slower and more dignified and more lyrical and more songful than largo di molto, then it's that

Note, I'm not complaining, quite the opposite; but when I checked timings the adagios were longer than anyone elses by a long way. Critics of BA1 have complained that it was maybe a bit hectic, so maybe BA2 reacted against that. But Pressler's playing is so intelligent, and Cohen's tone so beautiful, I'm very happy. Also, the first movement is certainly allegro, and the final presto, so I never felt it got bogged down.

P.S. I think the balance is fine, no way does Pressler overpower Cohen; maybe Greenhouse could be a bit more "up front", now and again, but his playing comes across very well in an enabling, supporting role.

P.P.S. The Gramophone 2010 Guide gives equal marks to BA2 and Florestan, and (for me) their review of BA2 is spot on.

[vinteuil]

I have the Sepek/ Queras/ Steier version of op1/3 (coupled with the Ghost trio (op70/1) but did not know that they had recorded the other op1 trios.

... sadly, I don't think they have!

See #8 above.

.

[DracoM]

And they're doing it AGAIN!!!!!
Talking over, through, round, interrupting.
She's got her prepared notes and he wants to keep chirping and joking and interrupting, STOPS HER FLOW, MAKES HER MAKE MISTAKES AS SHE TRIED TO FIND HER PLACE IN HER NOTES ETC.

NO, NO, NO!

[kernelbogey]

And they're doing it AGAIN!!!!!
Talking over, through, round, interrupting.
She's got her prepared notes and he wants to keep chirping and joking and interrupting, STOPS HER FLOW, MAKES HER MAKE MISTAKES AS SHE TRIED TO FIND HER PLACE IN HER NOTES ETC.

NO, NO, NO!

Current BBC culture....
I think Helen would have been great on her own. One wonders who makes these choices.

[Keraulophone]

NO, NO, NO!

So much so that it makes you (and others, including me) see RED.

[DracoM]

Is this all about the McGregor ego? It's what I am increasingly wondering: he wants this prog to be about HIM, so he has to be in almost every item?

[Cockney Sparrow]

If that is the intention, they should script it.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Any chance of a discussion on the music, the versions, the result?

Hosts: isn't it time for a separate thread for criticisms of the BaL format and AMcG? To be frank, I find the highly predictable re-iterations every week extremely tedious.

[Mal]

Op.1 opens with a Mannheim rocket, the "swoosh", rising arpeggio... Florestan trio opens the proceedings - "lightness of touch, beautiful, ..." Borodin played in contrast... "blousy vibrato, recorded in a bathroom, stogy..."

Goya trio - HIPP, fortepiano, careful, but good balance. Makes the point I spotted with BA2, modern trios tend to lose the cello.

Pinchas Zukerman, Jacqueline du Pré, Daniel Barenboim. HW considers Barenboim an impressive, shaping, directing force here. I agree, Barenboim sounds wonderful here, as good as Pressler, for me, maybe injecting an extra ounce of grandeur to the proceedings, perhaps not quite as limpid.

Stern (Isaac Stern, Leonard Rose, Eugene Istomin) is described as too sugary. I tend to agree, Cohen in BA2 has less sugar while maintaining a beautiful, warm sound.

Castle trio - HIPP - very different sounding foretpiano than Goyas, not as effective.

BA2 get to introduce us to the scherzo, "need to hear their version of this" says HW "pressler at his his effortless best", brings the "sparkle". "He's looking for extremes" Presto are really presto. [She doesn't say it, but (also) the andante's are really slow.]She's right. I think she's wrong when she says the string players don't keep up... Cohen keeps up IMHO! Brings in Florestan for a direct comparison, Tomes showing superb lightness and wit, BUT Barenboim showing much more.

It's sounding like Barenboim vs. Pressler to me, both from the extracts and what they are saying.

OP.1/2 is fur coat and no knickers suggests HW, and it's Kempff, et.al. who lead us into this underwear-less affair. It sounds a bit dour to me, compared to BA2. HW: "Doesn't quite take off... Florestans kindle this more into life....shades of Fawlty Towers (?)" But she finds Barenboim ZdP more profound, tender, as do I, from the extracts. "No one floats the little figures like Barenboim". Finds them a bit heavy for the minuet, she like's the goyas in that. [Personally, I'm not liking the fortepiano, can't compete with Pressler or Barenboim,...]

"Need to go for broke [in the final movement], those trios that succeed inject massive energy." says HW, wirh Ashekanzy et. al. doing the injecting. Perlman warm, Harrel lets it down,... HW and AM sound lukewarm about this set... [I listened to it on spotify many moons ago and it put me off Op.1... but they are better in later trios...]

Op.1/3 a step up form the other two suggests AM, HW agrees. I also agree, having listened to BA2's take on it yesterday... a real masterpiece this "terse, profound, deeply dark." HW thinks Barenboim has "the sense of portent", here, it's really "electrifying,... feverish, ... visceral" and plays a long (superb!) extract. Florestan do a good job in the development section, managing the swings and roundabouts. The ten minutes slow movement variations are introduced by Kempff... they suggest Pressler is playing it too slow and the alchemy is gone. [I disagree, Pressler greatly varies the speed over the ten minutes, and they played him at his slowest here, and cut him off. Over the ten minutes I thought it had great alchemy].

Florestan are heard to great effect in the final movement, [but I reckon BA2 handle it at least as well, Pressler injecting even more manic energy.]

Florestan is a strong contender, but string players are dismissed... lacking intensity.

Pinchas Zukerman, Jacqueline du Pré, Daniel Barenboim is the winner, Barenboim is "in the moment of Beethoven,... marvellous spontaneity... magical".

In summary, for me, Barenboim and Pressler sounded really inspired. So I'll stick with my BA2 set but that nine CD box set Of Barenboim et. al. gets bumped higher on my "too purchase" list...

[visualnickmos]

NO, NO, NO,

This is just NOT working for me

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes - I gave it a chance, hoping against hope that it wouldn't be a twofer, and heard HW (who has presented many very good solo BaLs) stuttering "from the ... from the ... the ... errr ... in the ... the 'cello line" followed by the usual inane agreements from Noddy (that he could record separately, they sound like generic responses that could be pre-recorded and spliced into any discussion of any work - a bit like the "comments bank" statements AC-12 used when communicating with the OCG in Line of Duty).

Decided to switch to a more professional-sounding station, but sadly I can't get Hospital Radio, so put Heather Roache's Ptelea CD on instead. Much more satisfying.