BaL 6.04.19 - Mahler: Symphony no. 4 in G

[Barbirollians]

Ta

Just heard it on the iPlayer - how much better without the McGregor interruptions and Baragwanath repeating himself about Mahler’s children’s songs and folk music .

He might have been able to play some Walter then . The winner did little for me - thought Cemcic much better than Wittek on the boy soprano version - Battle reminded me why I have such a soft spot for the Massel - the Szell a shocking omission.Also we have recordings by three not two conductors who worked with Mahler.

The winner rather left me cold and Miah Persson’s singing was rather characterless for my taste-good to be reminded of the Kubelik though .

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Just heard it on the iPlayer - how much better without the McGregor interruptions and Baragwanath repeating himself about Mahler’s children’s songs and folk music .

He might have been able to play some Walter then . .

For one brief moment, I thought you were saying that the iPlayer version had been edited (de-twofered). But then I realised.

[gurnemanz]

The winner rather left me cold and Miah Persson’s singing was rather characterless for my taste-good to be reminded of the Kubelik though .

I reacted similiarly to Persson, especially when I went back to Irmgard Seefried for Walter (1950 live).

[BBMmk2]

... the Kubelik with the Bavarians ; I think the Abbado was with the Viennese.

.

Indeed it was, with Frederica von Stade.

[jayne lee wilson]

I'm afraid I didn't get much out of this one. Shame NB had to describe Mengelberg's rubato as "outrageous", as if we somehow know better now... the past may be another country, but we can learn from their doing things differently. And describing the recording as "crackly" is unfair too as in the Pristine transfer, there's little evidence of surface noise.

I learned one useful thing - I really don't like a boy's treble voice in the finale, however well he sings. It feels almost too literally a child's view of heaven, whereas the soprano voice sets it at a metaphorical, poetically evocative remove. And for me it sounds better too, so long as her voice is light and fresh, and the dramatic assumption likewise.

[Richard Barrett]

I learned one useful thing - I really don't like a boy's treble voice in the finale, however well he sings. It feels almost too literally a child's view of heaven, whereas the soprano voice sets it at a metaphorical, poetically evocative remove. And for me it sounds better too, so long as her voice is light and fresh, and the dramatic assumption likewise.

When Mahler wanted children's voices he specified them! And, as you imply, it shouldn't sound too "innocent", that isn't the point.

[jayne lee wilson]

On a Mahlerian tangent, I wonder if anyone's tried this yet? I've saved it to faves for later...

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/mahler-symphony-no-10-arr-m-castelletti-for-chamber-orchestra-john-storgards-lapland-chamber-orchestra/heme5ohuusmgb

In her very detailed & fascinating note, Castelletti says:

"My intention was to recreate this symphony for chamber orchestra, in the contemporaneous tradition of Arnold Schoenberg’s Verein für musikalische Privatauf- führungen..."

[Barbirollians]

For one brief moment, I thought you were saying that the iPlayer version had been edited (de-twofered). But then I realised.

Sorry posting from phone in France - “it would have been” is missing from the first paragraph.

[silvestrione]

I'm afraid I didn't get much out of this one. Shame NB had to describe Mengelberg's rubato as "outrageous", as if we somehow know better now... the past may be another country, but we can learn from their doing things differently. And describing the recording as "crackly" is unfair too as in the Pristine transfer, there's little evidence of surface noise.
.

My version (the Archipel) seems remarkably good sound for 'live' in 1939, but there are indeed some crackles.

I did get a lot from this BAL. Together with a renewed listen to the Mengelberg, it changed my mind about this symphony. It now seems Mahler's most subtle symphony. I think NB made it clear he meant 'outrageous' as a characterisation rather than a criticism, a warning that those of us used to modern performance practice would find it startlingly different!

Is there a good analysis of this symphony easily available somewhere, does anyone know? (I've just remembered there's one by Tovey, which I'll get out).

[gurnemanz]

Bernstein was mentioned with an excerpt including the boy soprano in the finale.

Though as pointed out in the following post another boy soprano version was played on BaL. Out of curiosity, I have just listened on Spoty to the Bernstein/Concertgebouw on your list with boy sop, Helmut Wittek, and was totally won over by it as a viable way of doing it. A formidable and convincing performance from the 14-year-old. A five star reviewer on Amazon writes of seeing this combination at the Barbican in 1987. The movement is also on YouTube where the first contributor reviewer comments "As Mahler intended, a boy soprano". I also remember reading this somewhere else but couldn't find a source.

[Goon525]

On a Mahlerian tangent, I wonder if anyone's tried this yet? I've saved it to faves for later...

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/mahler-symphony-no-10-arr-m-castelletti-for-chamber-orchestra-john-storgards-lapland-chamber-orchestra/heme5ohuusmgb

In her very detailed & fascinating note, Castelletti says:

"My intention was to recreate this symphony for chamber orchestra, in the contemporaneous tradition of Arnold Schoenberg’s Verein für musikalische Privatauf- führungen..."

I could listen to this, having a Qobuz subscription. But what earthly point is there in a chamber orchestra version of Mahler 10 when there are several different completions available on the full orchestras for which he wrote?

[Bryn]

I could listen to this, having a Qobuz subscription. But what earthly point is there in a chamber orchestra version of Mahler 10 when there are several different completions available on the full orchestras for which he wrote?

How about the solo piano transcription of Cooke's performing version? The first movement was transcribed by Ronald Stevenson, the other four by Christopher White, who recorded it.

[HighlandDougie]

On a Mahlerian tangent, I wonder if anyone's tried this yet? I've saved it to faves for later...

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/mahler-symphony-no-10-arr-m-castelletti-for-chamber-orchestra-john-storgards-lapland-chamber-orchestra/heme5ohuusmgb

In her very detailed & fascinating note, Castelletti says:

"My intention was to recreate this symphony for chamber orchestra, in the contemporaneous tradition of Arnold Schoenberg’s Verein für musikalische Privatauf- führungen..."

The Cooke completion is so hard-wired into my brain that I found some of the instrumentation a bit off-putting at first (it's like the Schönberg orchestration of the Brahms PQ when you think - "xylophone? what's that doing here") but I need to persevere. As one might expect from this team (Storgärds/LaplandCO/BIS), fine recording; good playing.

[jayne lee wilson]

I could listen to this, having a Qobuz subscription. But what earthly point is there in a chamber orchestra version of Mahler 10 when there are several different completions available on the full orchestras for which he wrote?

...the joys and insights of defamiliarisation...
First impressions of Mahler 10 arr. Castelletti... very absorbing indeed, more (on a different thread I guess, somewhere...) later...

[Nick Armstrong]

The dialogue in this BAL annoyed me more than others - some ridiculous repetition of opinions I thought. Peculiar omissions too (might have been time for more had the two of them not spent minutes echoing one another ). Particularly odd that Bernstein didn't get a mention (whereas the other boy soprano version did - like gurnemanz, I find the LB recording very convincing).

But I found such illustrations as there were very interesting. Don't think I can deal with Elsie Morrison on the Kubelik, sadly; but I shall give the 'winner' a listen on Qobuz - haven't really engaged with Fischer's Mahler for some reason, and I'm planning on rectifying that.

It does have Miah Persson though...!

Quite!

Kathleen Battle in the Maazel - I was waiting for her to be kicked firmly into touch as too arty by far (as I'd have done on this showing)

Ditto