BaL 6.04.19 - Mahler: Symphony no. 4 in G

[jayne lee wilson]

Jayne
Have you found any sensible way of searching back copies of G for this sort of thing? Putting in Gramophone Collection just gives you every mention of either word. Adding inverted commas doesn’t help. I don’t think AND does either. I may be being dim, but it seems like a prehistoric search functionality.

No magic solution here (yet) I'm afraid.... it sometimes helps to find a given review/article by being as specific as possible e.g.."The Gramophone Collection Mahler..." or "Debussy La Mer Collection Rob Cowan" but even that isn't infallible.
Reviews can come up immediately sometimes but at others, well...workarounds include references at Presto etc., or googling....

Still wouldn't be without it though - the original reviews of the Norrington Brahms Cycle I'm in medias res with were a very good read...(can't find No.2 in there though - doh! again...)

[EDIT.... using "The Gramophone Collection Mahler" soon recovered the 6th, 7th, 10th and song cycles....but alas no 4th (yet)....

[pastoralguy]

No magic solution here (yet) I'm afraid.... it sometimes helps to find a given review/article by being as specific as possible e.g.."The Gramophone Collection Mahler..." or "Debussy La Mer Collection Rob Cowan" but even that isn't infallible.
Reviews can come up immediately sometimes but at others, well...workarounds include references at Presto etc., or googling....

Still wouldn't be without it though - the original reviews of the Norrington Brahms Cycle I'm in medias res with were a very good read...(can't find No.2 in there though - doh! again...)

[EDIT.... using "The Gramophone Collection Mahler" soon recovered the 6th, 7th, 10th and song cycles....but alas no 4th (yet)....

I've been invited thrice to fill in a Gramophone survey and I always mention the poor search engine facility for back issues but, so far, no one has paid any attention. I suppose we're lucky in that some of the names we enter are 'unusual' and that certainly cuts down the number of 'hits' but prolific musicians such as Karajan, Solti or Bernstein can provide a huge amount of data to look through. Like Jayne, I find looking up the PRESTO site can be helpful but older recordings don't often have Review dates.

I think I've mentioned that I've recently been purchasing Lps of my big violin hero, Igor Oistrakh, and have been transcribing these discs to cd with very good results. Inevitably, I want to read the original reviews but, boy, it can be like looking for a needle in a haystack! (Some of them are REALLY snippy and I do wonder if there's a bit of 'Cold War' bias there).

Mind you, I do come across some fascinating by-ways and the Correspondence is a hoot! (Tunbridge Wells seems to feature a lot). Fascinating stuff and a real treasure trove of information and attitudes from another time.

[visualnickmos]

Putting this (very interesting, if diverse) thread back on track, I'm very much looking fwd to this BaL, Mahler 4 being one of my 'fav' works; Strangely though Horenstein's recording doesn't quite hit the mark for me.... yes, I know it 'supposed' to be a benchmark - along with Szell, which DOES hit the mark.

[Bryn]

I seem to recall that the Horenstein got a fairly cool reception from the critics at the time of its release. I snapped up a copy, regardless. I was suspicious that the negative reviews were based on the fact that it was released on the CFP label, rather than a full-price EMI label. For me, it was a worthy companion to his 3rd.

[Barbirollians]

I seem to recall that the Horenstein got a fairly cool reception from the critics at the time of its release. I snapped up a copy, regardless. I was suspicious that the negative reviews were based on the fact that it was released on the CFP label, rather than a full-price EMI label. For me, it was a worthy companion to his 3rd.

Not sure what others said but as described above Deryck Cooke in Gramophone loved the performance but was very critical of the recording.

[Barbirollians]

The Concertgebouw have recorded the Mahler 4 with all of their chief conductors; they even managed to get Gatti in just in the nick of time. The orchestra clearly have a special affinity with this piece and I love the unique sound of the Mengelberg. The Concertgebouw played it under Mahler's direction twice in one evening on October 23 1904!

Needless to say, I have numerous recordings on my shelves but only acquired the celebrated Szell version last Christmas (it's in the big box). Special favourites are the VPO/Maazel/Battle, RCO/Haitink/Schäfer, VPO/Walter/Gueden an RCO/Solti/Stahlmann. I also have a NYPO/Solti from 1962 with Irmgard Seefried which is in the NYPO Mahler Radio Broadcasts set.


Would very much like to hear Lucy Crowe in the finale of the 4th as I think her voice would be ideal for it.

Agree very much about Lucy Crowe being ideal as the solo soprano in the finale

Have I missed mentions of Tennstedt and Pops in Mahler 4 - RO was very complimentary about it in the mid 1980s .

[Maclintick]

Britten wrote of "my precious Mahler 4th, which I think I have more genuine affection for than any piece in the world". He conducted a performance with the LSO in Orford Church in 1961. I only got to hear it or indeed even know about it when it came with the Vol 2 BBC Legends box in 2017. Not listed but very much still available. If I was doing the BaL I would feel inclined to at least mention it. A fine performance in which his "affection " shines through and which is certainly not just a historical curiosity.

I'd very much like to download this, but according to the Presto website downloads are only available of movements I,II & IV, whereas movt III Ruhevoll can only be acquired on CD if one purchases the entire BBC Legends box, or by downloading same for an astronomical sum....or am I missing something ?

[richardfinegold]

I seem to recall that the Horenstein got a fairly cool reception from the critics at the time of its release. I snapped up a copy, regardless. I was suspicious that the negative reviews were based on the fact that it was released on the CFP label, rather than a full-price EMI label. For me, it was a worthy companion to his 3rd.

The lp was awful sounding, the digital version a huge improvement. I read more than one reviewer of the digital release who said they had dismissed the recording until the CD was released.
I find that Horenstein takes the darkest view of this essentially sunny work. He doesn’t exactly turn II into Chopins Funeral March, but more than anyone else he does convey that the scordatura violin represents a klezmer style grim reaper. And in IV I get more of a feeling that it is the child whose life was claimed in II who is describing his sensations upon arrival in Heaven, rather than some random child arriving at a Disney like theme park

[Bryn]

The lp was awful sounding, the digital version a huge improvement. I read more than one reviewer of the digital release who said they had dismissed the recording until the CD was released.
I find that Horenstein takes the darkest view of this essentially sunny work. He doesn’t exactly turn II into Chopins Funeral March, but more than anyone else he does convey that the scordatura violin represents a klezmer style grim reaper. And in IV I get more of a feeling that it is the child whose life was claimed in II who is describing his sensations upon arrival in Heaven, rather than some random child arriving at a Disney like theme park

The quality of equipment (largely home made, using designs from hobby electronics magazines) I had to play the LP on was not of the highest standard. I was used to listening through the recording quality to the performance, and that I thought superb. The LP is long gone. Today I have only a CD version.

[jayne lee wilson]

I'd very much like to download this, but according to the Presto website downloads are only available of movements I,II & IV, whereas movt III Ruhevoll can only be acquired on CD if one purchases the entire BBC Legends box, or by downloading same for an astronomical sum....or am I missing something ?

This does happen sometimes for the obvious reasons! But here it seems terribly mean (maybe more cock-up than conspiracy.... so - try asking Presto about it?)
.... easy way out -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-fahrenden-Wunderhorn-highlights/dp/B00000IM6J/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=1554041590&sr=1-1-catcorr

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This does happen sometimes for the obvious reasons! But here it seems terribly mean (maybe more cock-up than conspiracy.... so - try asking Presto about it?)
.... easy way out -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symp...sr=1-1-catcorr

Ah, well spotted.

I’m hoping that someone will find the missing first movement of Bruckner 6, conducted by Furtwängler.

[Maclintick]

This does happen sometimes for the obvious reasons! But here it seems terribly mean (maybe more cock-up than conspiracy.... so - try asking Presto about it?)
.... easy way out -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symp...sr=1-1-catcorr

Thanks very much, JLW. I've now listened to it on Spotify. Considering it's a live performance the standard of playing of the 1961 LSO is top-notch throughout & Britten's direction is inspired -- as Gurnemanz says, permeated with his love for the work. Movts I, II & IV are nippier than some -- BB traversing the Wunderhornisch landscape in his Jensen Interceptor convertible (4 L straight 6), but he achieves a good balance of naturally-paced flow and the contrasting impression of time standing still in movt 3, being only marginally faster than Szell in that classic Cleveland account -- still a benchmark, IMHO. Thanks to Gurnie for the recommendation.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I seem to recall that the Horenstein got a fairly cool reception from the critics at the time of its release. I snapped up a copy, regardless. I was suspicious that the negative reviews were based on the fact that it was released on the CFP label, rather than a full-price EMI label. For me, it was a worthy companion to his 3rd.

Back in LP days I did the same, again after buying his 3rd. It was my very first 4th. The CD reissue, more recently acquired, may well be a sonic improvement but I never had that much difficulty tuning in through the LP sound to the performance.

So all those with sensitive lugs should rush to track down the former!

[cloughie]

Back in LP days I did the same, again after buying his 3rd. It was my very first 4th. The CD reissue, more recently acquired, may well be a sonic improvement but I never had that much difficulty tuning in through the LP sound to the performance.

So all those with sensitive lugs should rush to track down the former!

I bought the EMI 150th anniversary Complete Mahler works box which includes the Horenstein 4 - if not too many duplications maybe worth a look although it was under £20 then!

[richardfinegold]

The quality of equipment (largely home made, using designs from hobby electronics magazines) I had to play the LP on was not of the highest standard. I was used to listening through the recording quality to the performance, and that I thought superb. The LP is long gone. Today I have only a CD version.

I had the lp back in the day and liked the performance (for most of my life being able to indulge in Audiophilia was merely aspirational)but when my lps were destroyed in a flood hadn’t heard it for a few decades. I reaqcquired a CfP lp a fewyears ago after having a digital version and ughh!,,.horrible! I then pulled up a review of the CD where the reviewer stated he had awarded it one star on lp but 4 on CD. Laying aside the whole analog vs digital debate, this is one of the most egregious examples of a recording being salvaged by remastering that I know of.
I listened to Iván Fischer and the Concertgebouw on Blu Ray a few times this week. It’s lovely, but a bit fast, no dawdling and smelling the roses in the sublime third movement. I think I have Fischer and his Budapest Orchestra but can’t find it...anyone familiar with it?