Originally posted by gurnemanz
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BaL 6.04.19 - Mahler: Symphony no. 4 in G
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Originally posted by CallMePaul View PostI believe that Mahler recorded a piano roll of a transcription of the symphony's finale (the only recording he ever made, but then recording was in its infancy during his lifetime). I have no idea whether this is available to listen to but it would surely make a fascinating and important document even considering the limitations of piano rolls. I rarely listen to Mahler these days and my only CD recording is the 2006 Haitink/ Schäfer/ Concertgebouw one. I also have the Horenstein/ Price/ LPO version on LP, which was my introduction to Mahler's music. I was not aware that it had ever been reissued on CD as the CFP catalogue seems to have completely disappeared (tobacco company sponsorship would count against it in these more health-conscious times) and is not listed on the Presto site unless it is lurking in a mega-box! I only very occasionally listen to LPs as I have only a basic turntable so it is festering in the spare bedroom. As far as I can remember this recording had mixed reviews when it was issued and I would be interested to hear others' views on it. Horenstein had a great reputation as a Mahler conductor in his day but little is heard of him now.
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Originally posted by Barbirollians View PostMaybe but there are no similar extraordinary and sudden accelerations and decelerations in Bruno Walter's 1940s Mahler 4 or in Klemperer's admittedly much later account
As I've said before, rubato is as personal to the ear and heart of the listener as it is to the performer; for myself I love to hear a great conductor following the emotional and mood-swings of a work like Mahler 4 (cf Kna in Bruckner). But of course feelings will divide. (I find it almost impossible to listen to the later Bernstein in Mahler; it sounds to me as if Bernstein is imposing himself too much, whereas Mengelberg's 4th feels more intuitive of the music itself...).
I guess what I find most difficult is that museological "reverence for the score" approach, which, diminishing the creative role of the performer, has led to far too many inflexible, unvarying expressively rigid performances....
(It does make life easier for some conductors though, doesn't it?)
All of this throws up intriguing paradoxes about recorded music of course; do rubato-rich interpretations offer more, or give greater pleasure, in repeated hearings; or those which follow subtler or more unvarying tempi?
Or in the age of such wide availability, so many different recordings and especially of streaming, does it no longer matter?
Can streaming become a re-education in "Interpretations on Record"?Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 29-03-19, 15:33.
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That was my point , at times Mengelberg's rubato came across as wonderful and elicited that " oh yes " feeling at others it felt like a driving instructor had just hit the dashboard .
There is plenty of wonderful rubato in Walter's 1946 recording just a shame about the soprano ( which is why I tend to prefer the live account with Gueden - the 1946 record was , however, described by RO in Gramophone in 2015 as the essential record of his to buy .Last edited by Barbirollians; 31-03-19, 07:11.
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Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View PostWhat a shame we don't have other 4ths from Mengelberg.....
So far I haven't tracked down any Gramophone Collection articles on the Mahler 4 in the archive; if anyone finds one do let us all know...Don’t cry for me
I go where music was born
J S Bach 1685-1750
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Originally posted by Cockney Sparrow View PostThat vinyl disc was my introduction, I was not aware it was subject to criticism. Always thought well of both Horenstein and Price (and a fan of Price) but I'm not an expert on his recordings. The single CD goes for a price, usually, but its also available in an anniversary box set with different performers of the symphonies - "Gustav Mahler: Complete Works [150th Anniversary] " - Warner. Listed on Am (ASIN: B003D0ZNWY) and Presto.
On a quick look a while back, Pristine seemed to be collaborating on Horenstein issues and I think his family promote such things. I have a vague memory of buying a CD of Mahler recording to player piano roll, but I can't find it at the moment (if my memory serves me right - I might be wrong!).
The big EMI/Warner box has some interesting choices for the symphonies
1 Giulini
2 Klemperer ( studio)
3 Rattle ( I think this was probably the best of Rattle's cycle)
4 Horenstein
5 Tennstedt live 1988
6 Barbirolli
7 Rattle live
8 Tennstedt
9 Barbirolli
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Anyone know Klemperer's performance on Testament with Teresa Stich-Randall ?
Also Gramophone in 1962 included an appreciation of Bruno Walter in which John McClure of Columbia Records recounted recording projects he and Walter had planned just before his death - Schumann symphonies , Mahler 4, Bruckner 8 Brahms Requiem and Fidelio .Last edited by Barbirollians; 30-03-19, 12:31.
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Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
The big EMI/Warner box has some interesting choices for the symphonies
1 Giulini
2 Klemperer ( studio)
3 Rattle ( I think this was probably the best of Rattle's cycle)
4 Horenstein
5 Tennstedt live 1988
6 Barbirolli
7 Rattle live
8 Tennstedt
9 Barbirolli
1 Kubelik/Bayerischen Rundfunks
2 Mehta/Wiener Phil:
3 Haitink/C'gebouw
4 Boulez/Cleveland
5 Bernstein/Wiener Phil:
6 Abbado/Berliner Phil:
7 Sinopoli/Philharmonia
8 Solti/Chicago
9 Karajan/Berliner Phil:
10 [Cooke] Chailly/RSO Berlin
.
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Originally posted by vinteuil View Post... indeed yes. The DG/decca box which came out at about the same time opted for :
1 Kubelik/Bayerischen Rundfunks
2 Mehta/Wiener Phil:
3 Haitink/C'gebouw
4 Boulez/Cleveland
5 Bernstein/Wiener Phil:
6 Abbado/Berliner Phil:
7 Sinopoli/Philharmonia
8 Solti/Chicago
9 Karajan/Berliner Phil:
10 [Cooke] Chailly/RSO Berlin
.
1 Kubelik/Bayerischen Rundfunks
2 Mehta/Wiener Phil
3 Abbado/Berliner Phil
4 Karajan/Berliner Phil
5 Bernstein/Wiener Phil
6 Bernstein/Wiener Phil
7 Abbado/Berliner Phil
8 Solti/Chicago
9 Giulini/Chicago
10 [Cooke] Chailly/RSO Berlin
which, if one participated, then brought an invitation to buy it (admittedly at a pretty low price) with one's name printed in the booklet. Ooh, La, La!
I'm also certain that we've had a, "Mahler: the Forumistas' Choice", as well - probably several times.
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Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View PostWhat a shame we don't have other 4ths from Mengelberg.....
So far I haven't tracked down any Gramophone Collection articles on the Mahler 4 in the archive; if anyone finds one do let us all know...
Have you found any sensible way of searching back copies of G for this sort of thing? Putting in Gramophone Collection just gives you every mention of either word. Adding inverted commas doesn’t help. I don’t think AND does either. I may be being dim, but it seems like a prehistoric search functionality.
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Originally posted by Alison View PostI always think this symphony cries out for the Concertgebouw Orchestra.
Needless to say, I have numerous recordings on my shelves but only acquired the celebrated Szell version last Christmas (it's in the big box). Special favourites are the VPO/Maazel/Battle, RCO/Haitink/Schäfer, VPO/Walter/Gueden an RCO/Solti/Stahlmann. I also have a NYPO/Solti from 1962 with Irmgard Seefried which is in the NYPO Mahler Radio Broadcasts set.
Would very much like to hear Lucy Crowe in the finale of the 4th as I think her voice would be ideal for it."The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink
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