BaL 16.03.19 - Brahms: Piano Concerto no. 2 in B flat

[jayne lee wilson]

Very good survey, not least for its recognition of the variety of approaches, neatly summed up as TS listed his stylistically wide-ranging favourites at the end, and mentioned again the lack of period-instrument performances (not many modern-CO versions either). Which is of course true of Brahms’ orchestral works generally.

I understood his top choice and - despite a personal aversion to slower tempi in Brahms generally, I found the excerpts from Zimerman/Bernstein convincing, as illustrations of the range of moods, imagination, characterisation and emotional intensity of that favoured choice. I wouldn’t rush to hear it as I tend to seek a more radical, or at least smaller-scale approach right now; but he had Buchbinder/Harnoncourt and Hough/Wigglesworth for balance - already among my “top group” - and I will listen again (off CD) to those.

Shame that, given his appreciation of the faster fierier assumptions of Berezovsky and Schnabel that Horowitz/Toscanini wasn’t in the mix; I think it goes (well) beyond either in the same exciting respects and would have welcomed his thoughts about it - as of Richter (but then, which Richter…? There are at least four....)…but given the BaL time-limit there will always be omissions, and the more we like such omissions the more puzzling they will seem.

I also enjoyed Tom’s descriptive evocation of some of the music’s most magical moments; this drew me in and, if this wasn’t quite so fascinating or insightful as his earlier Mozart and Bruckner essays, made it a most rewarding webcast.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Curiously, the Wisdom of Solomon was missed.

I believe the Wisdom of Solomon included missing out some of the notes, and got a brief, surprised mention as such.

Pity - my first recording, which I guess will have to go in the bin now, along with Gilels/ Jochum

[Barbirollians]

I believe the Wisdom of Solomon included missing out some of the notes, and got a brief, surprised mention as such.

Pity - my first recording, which I guess will have to go in the bin now, along with Gilels/ Jochum

Not according to Stephen Johnson whose winner it was back in 2001 !

[Mal]

Thanks to Qobuz, I listened to the 'winner' this afternoon. Before giving my own impressions, can I just point out that the late Ivan March was probably the worst reviewer ever on the Gramophone team - and I read every issue to which he contributed. Hopelessly superficial. Anyway, I can be allergic to Lenny too, but I thought his conducting was restrained and sensible, yet dynamic, on this occasion. The orchestra played, and were recorded, superbly - one really hears the quality of the Vienna strings. My one area of reservation was the recording of the piano, very forward, almost in its own acoustic, but more worryingly with a rather coarse hollow quality at or above ff. It's decades since I heard Zimerman live, but I don’t recall that being a characteristic of his playing. I wouldn’t want to put anyone off listening to this generally excellent version, but it isn’t perfect.

What's your evidence for March being a bad reviewer? Note he's not just one of the Gramophone horde, he's lead reviewer (of three), and sole editor, for the Penguin guide. Several reviews in the Penguin guide don't match my experience, but many do, and I don't find it a superficial guide.

Zimerman/Bernstein actually doesn't even appear in the lengthy lists in the Penguin guides 1999/2010. Note, I happen to agree with March, on this occasion, which is why I quoted his review - which highlighted the problems better than I ever could. Instead of making an ad hominem attack on March, why not stick to just arguing against his review? You may have found Bernstein's conducting restrained and sensible, but March didn't, and I didn't. Given the highly subjective nature of music appreciation can't we just agree to differ instead of launching ad hominem attacks? I'd just suggest, before purchase, that prospective CD purchasers stream most of the first movement to see if Lenny's restrained enough, for them, this time.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Not according to Stephen Johnson whose winner it was back in 2001 !

On further consideration, retrieved from bin!

[Mal]

If you have another change of mind, don't bin it, send it to me :)

[gurnemanz]

Why don't you try Leon Fleisher/Cleveland/Szell? I'm not sure how streamable it is (or it's available as a twofer with PC 1 - remastered, I think - which can be picked up "used" on Amazon for a relatively modest sum). A fine performance which I certainly prefer to Serkin or Gilels (his PC2 is a bit of a disappointment by comparison with PC1, imv).

Others on here have also referred positively to Fleisher/Szell. I also noted that it was the choice of Harriet Smith (another BaL stalwart) in her review in 1001 Classical Recordings book. I didn't know it and was nudged into listening to it - it's on Spotify. After also finding a lot to enjoy there I am inclined to agree with Barbirollians above that Zimermann is a great listen but not necessarily an ideal BaL choice.

[Mal]

... Fleisher/Szell. I also noted that it was the choice of Harriet Smith (another BaL stalwart) in her review in 1001 Classical Recordings book... Zimerman is a great listen but not necessarily an ideal BaL choice.

I listened to this in full on Amazon Unlimited (couldn't stop listening!) and agree that Fleisher/Szell would be a great BAL choice. I found it as strong as Serkin/Szell but a bit more restrained/considered - if I didn't already have Serkin/Szell I'd probably make it a library choice. But Szell's orchestral contribution sounds similar in both, so I've put Gilels/Jochum on my "to buy" list.

[richardfinegold]

I listened to The Winner on Qobuz yesterday. It is impressive, if not necessarily going to displace my favorites, but my question is about the sound quality. I am still getting used to Qobuz and I listen to it via it’s dedicated tab on the Bluesound
App. This was a distinctly unlovely recording, with the treble (primarily the Piano) almost painfully shrill, the distinctive sounds of the VPO being smeared as well, with some congestion in the climaxes. Does anyone here own the CD, or download? I am wondering if the fault lies in the original recording or some other link in the reproduction chain

[Pulcinella]

I'm currently listening to the winner, streaming via Deezer through my Sonos set-up.
It might not be the usual piano plus orchestra sound, but I don't find it shrill.
It would not be MY library choice, but I'm enjoying the different interpretation: I'm hearing things I hadn't before, and can
understand TS's advocacy of it.
And I sense (though how?) that, even if the orchestra thinks it a wayward rendition, they're behind Bernstein in a way that the BBCSO wasn't in their infamous Enigma Variations recording. But then, they would have been much more used to him, and perhaps more willing to respond.

[LeMartinPecheur]

If you have another change of mind, don't bin it, send it to me :)

Sorry mal, it never got very close to binning, hence the One thing this BaL has flagged is that I'm not that well off for recordings of this work, with none at all on CD.

On LP I started in the 70s with the Solomon and got the Gilels/ Jochum in its nice DGG box with the 1st soon after it came out. Since then it appears Cornish s/h shops have coughed up the Decca Ashkenazy (played but not well remembered), and also a copy of the good ol' RCA Victrola Gilels/ Reiner which is patiently waiting for a good scrub and first spinning

[richardfinegold]

I'm currently listening to the winner, streaming via Deezer through my Sonos set-up.
It might not be the usual piano plus orchestra sound, but I don't find it shrill.
It would not be MY library choice, but I'm enjoying the different interpretation: I'm hearing things I hadn't before, and can
understand TS's advocacy of it.
And I sense (though how?) that, even if the orchestra thinks it a wayward rendition, they're behind Bernstein in a way that the BBCSO wasn't in their infamous Enigma Variations recording. But then, they would have been much more used to him, and perhaps more willing to respond.

That wayward feeling is what for me would keep this behind the two Szell recordings and Gilles/Jochum. I also thought the momentum sagged to near stasis in I, although it soon revved back up

[Nick Armstrong]

Just downloaded Richter/CSO/Leinsdorf

I'm amazed that this performance doesn't get more mentions (and none at all during this BAL). I love it (as referred to above).

Enduring the surges of smug verbosity (or so it seems to me), I tried to focus on what TS was saying rather than how he was saying it - and some of it was interesting... as were a lot of the extracts played. I probably will give the 'winner' a listen on Qobuz (though I've never 'got' Zimerman's way with music, for some strange reason). Shame he just dismissed the Gilels/Jochum without analysis - because I've never liked it and have never been able to work out why. What was it TS said: the accompaniment was 'dour' or something? It kind of rang a bell - I remember thinking that the 'minor key' grit that makes the performance of the 1st concerto in the same box so tremendous seemed to carry over into the 2nd and just didn't deliver the music at all as I hear it.

I must say I liked the 'different' sound of the opening extract, from the Moravec / Bělohlávek performance. Pity it got no further airing or reference. I think I'll investigate that one, for a fresh view of this amazing piece.

[HighlandDougie]

[COLOR="#0000FF"] What was it TS said: the accompaniment was 'dour' or something?

"Lugubrious": not quite, but I know what he meant.

[HighlandDougie]

I listened to this in full on Amazon Unlimited (couldn't stop listening!) and agree that Fleisher/Szell would be a great BAL choice. I found it as strong as Serkin/Szell but a bit more restrained/considered - if I didn't already have Serkin/Szell I'd probably make it a library choice. But Szell's orchestral contribution sounds similar in both, so I've put Gilels/Jochum on my "to buy" list.

Don't press "buy" quite yet - I may* have a spare copy of the DG Originals issue lurking in the eaves. If I find it, I'll PM you.

* Found it - PM your address to me and I'll stick it in the post