BaL 16.03.19 - Brahms: Piano Concerto no. 2 in B flat

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Was there ever any litigation over Hattogate?

[Bryn]

Was there ever any litigation over Hattogate?

I don't think so. Following Robert von Bahr's letter to the June 2007 edition of The Gramophone re. his intention not to sue, I think all others affected decided to follow suit.

[silvestrione]

In case anyone is interested, it was not, of course, Joyce Hatto that Joseph Cooper was using as his yardstick, but Backhaus in his stereo version with VPO/Bohm.

I was unconvinced, being, at that time, a devotee of the then new Barenboim with Barbirolli (still like that).

[cloughie]

I don't think so. Following Robert von Bahr's letter to the June 2007 edition of The Gramophone re. his intention not to sue, I think all others affected decided to follow suit.

Or follow no suit! I don’t think it will get a mention on Saturday but the earlier Backhaus (VPO Schuricht) is a really nice performance.

[Mal]

Gilels/BPO/Jochum, Tirimo/LPO/Levi, and Serkin/Cleveland O/Szell here.

I gave Tirimo/LPO/Levi to the charity shop, about ten years ago, mainly because the sound quality wasn't very good. But I'm slightly regretting it; the performance was quite ravishing. Has it been re-mastered? I replaced it with Serkin/Szell, but I find it too athletic. OK, it's quite exciting, but I want more than that. More warmth, more lyrcism, more like LPO/Levi. The sound, also, isn't that great,... again... maybe I need the latest remastering...

Gilels/BPO/Jochum seems to get a good press, how would you compare it to the other two? If you had to choose only one out of these three, which would you choose?

[HighlandDougie]

I gave Tirimo/LPO/Levi to the charity shop, about ten years ago, mainly because the sound quality wasn't very good. But I'm slightly regretting it; the performance was quite ravishing. Has it been re-mastered? I replaced it with Serkin/Szell, but I find it too athletic. OK, it's quite exciting, but I want more than that. More warmth, more lyrcism, more like LPO/Levi. The sound, also, isn't that great,... again... maybe I need the latest remastering...

Gilels/BPO/Jochum seems to get a good press, how would you compare it to the other two? If you had to choose only one out of these three, which would you choose?

Why don't you try Leon Fleisher/Cleveland/Szell? I'm not sure how streamable it is (or it's available as a twofer with PC 1 - remastered, I think - which can be picked up "used" on Amazon for a relatively modest sum). A fine performance which I certainly prefer to Serkin or Gilels (his PC2 is a bit of a disappointment by comparison with PC1, imv).

[cloughie]

Why don't you try Leon Fleisher/Cleveland/Szell? I'm not sure how streamable it is (or it's available as a twofer with PC 1 - remastered, I think - which can be picked up "used" on Amazon for a relatively modest sum). A fine performance which I certainly prefer to Serkin or Gilels (his PC2 is a bit of a disappointment by comparison with PC1, imv).

The old Gilels/Reiner is good as are Katchen/Ferencsik and Ashkenazy/Mehta, but the there’s no shortage of candidates.

[Mal]

Why don't you try Leon Fleisher/Cleveland/Szell? I'm not sure how streamable it is (or it's available as a twofer with PC 1 - remastered, I think - which can be picked up "used" on Amazon for a relatively modest sum). A fine performance which I certainly prefer to Serkin or Gilels (his PC2 is a bit of a disappointment by comparison with PC1, imv).

What's wrong with Gilels/Jochum/BPO in #2? I'm listening at the moment on Amazon Unlimited and thinking "this could be the one!". I'm only supposed to be sampling, but I can't turn it off - always a good sign!

I found Freire/Chailly easy to turn off.

Gilels/Jochum/BPO is a glowing, warm, passionate account. I guess it partly depends what you are looking for, and one's particular taste; I'm (mostly) looking for slow, lyrical, ruminating in #2, especially after Serkin & Freire's jagged, volcanic accounts. Also, the beauty of sound generated by the BPO, here, is breath taking, as is their musicality.

There are two Gilels performances, Rob Cowan says the second ( Gilels/Jochum/BPO) swops some "finesse and extra breadth" for some of the "fire" of Gilels/Chicago/Reiner. I'm liking the finesse and breadth, but wondering if more fire would be good...

There's a 2016 release of Fleisher/Szell and it sounds great on Amazon Unlimited! Now I'm having trouble turning this one off as well... it's a hard life :)

[Pulcinella]

I gave Tirimo/LPO/Levi to the charity shop, about ten years ago, mainly because the sound quality wasn't very good. But I'm slightly regretting it; the performance was quite ravishing. Has it been re-mastered? I replaced it with Serkin/Szell, but I find it too athletic. OK, it's quite exciting, but I want more than that. More warmth, more lyrcism, more like LPO/Levi. The sound, also, isn't that great,... again... maybe I need the latest remastering...

Gilels/BPO/Jochum seems to get a good press, how would you compare it to the other two? If you had to choose only one out of these three, which would you choose?

I'll need to listen to them again to decide....but more than likely the Serkin, though possibly because of the 'first version I got to know' syndrome! It was in a 2LP gatefold set, much cherished and played when I was a student in Canada (many records I had in my collection were North American CBS issues). It wasn't the first version I got on CD, though, which might suggest that it's a performance I wanted to be reunited with.

[Barbirollians]

I understood that reviews generally preferred the Serkin/Ormandy to the later Serkin/Szell?

I have and like hatfuls including very much my first recording the Giles/Jochum which I have a vague feeling won an earlier BAL in the mid 1980s.

[Pulcinella]

I'll need to listen to them again to decide....but more than likely the Serkin, though possibly because of the 'first version I got to know' syndrome! It was in a 2LP gatefold set, much cherished and played when I was a student in Canada (many records I had in my collection were North American CBS issues). It wasn't the first version I got on CD, though, which might suggest that it's a performance I wanted to be reunited with.

Yes: listened to all three this afternoon, opting, as I suspected, for the Serkin as my choice of the three.
I like the sense of abandonment and thrill that it portrays: the other two sound a bit too 'safe' in comparison.

(My pocket score is dated 10 August 1979, bought at Tanglewood, where I had gone to hear Serkin Junior play the piece: at least, I think it was number 2 not number 1, though I bought both scores there that day!)

PS: Yes, the Tanglewood archive tells me that it was number 2.

[jayne lee wilson]

Surprised to find so little mention of the 1948 Pristine Horowitz/Toscanini I mentioned above. Yes you need some tolerance for the SQ, and the impulsive audience diving in before the movements end to offer loud acclaim; but it changed my Brahmsian Life and it could change yours....

https://www.pristineclassical.com/collections/artist-vladimir-horowitz/products/pasc092

[Ein Heldenleben]

One thing that has always puzzled me about the opening of Brahms 2 . All the right hand notes of the piano opening - bar the first two Bflat left hand notes - are marked staccato -albeit with a slur . There is no pedal indication until the 6/4 chord at end of phrase . Yet every one seems to play it legato often with pedal . Is there a recording with it played as indicated ? Are there even recordings where the horn player plays the triplet staccato / mezzo staccato and the pianist smooths it all over ?

[DracoM]

This BAL is an absolute disgrace.
Tom Service all about Tom Service, wordy, me-me-me notice me being clever with words.....oh, yes, the Brahms? Was that what I was in this BAL for?

Yes, it is a v.diff job - huge number of recordings, so ......get ON with it......and I am still listening as I write. All Service and less Brahms.

[Barbirollians]

So far Service in rather annoying mode.