BaL 23.02.19 - Verdi: The Force of Destiny

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Constant interruptions. It’s just ill-mannered.

[Master Jacques]

Personally, I thought this was a shocker. The 'chat' format ill-suited such a complex, deep opera as La forza del destino, which was reduced absurdly to something like La forza de Leonora. I don't entirely blame Flora Willson, who does know her stuff, as the 'bants with AMcG' element left her no time to develop any ideas. But so much wasn't mentioned that ought to have been, and nearly everything was focused on the soprano lead - who is after all only one side of a fascinating triangle.

In particular, the treatment of Don Carlos (the "nasty" baritone) was silly and trivial. He is a young man caught in the web of Spanish family honour - and the contemporary prejudice against an "indiano" (something vital which was never mentioned in discussing Don Alvaro). Carlos constantly does the wrong thing for the right reasons, a bit like Will Grundy in The Archers. To call him "nasty" and to try and misinterpret his noble aria "Urna fatal" according to that prejudice is absurd.

The great duets between the tenor and baritone - ranging from friendship to bitter rivalry - are the heart of the opera, yet they were not so much as mentioned. Nor was the friar Melitone - Verdi's most significant comedy creation outside Falstaff, though at least we heard something at least of the gypsy Preziosilla. I'm afraid this was an inadequate BaL, which conveyed a skewed and superficial view of something Willson described at one point as "a Spanish melodrama". It is a great deal more than that. In its final version, it is one of the great operatic tragedies of character and the conflict of ideas, and it deserves to be treated respectfully.

[Stanfordian]

They’re talking over each other so much, you’d be forgiven for thinking it was Question Time.

Basic knowledge of radio broadcasting is not being observed by and Andrew McGregor and Flora Willson. - By talking over each other what they are saying is generally lost. - They should know better.

[gradus]

I don't mind Andrew joining in and I thought it a Good BAL with interesting well-informed comments from both of them.
When the piece was covered by Interpretations on Record some years ago the one performance that stuck in my mind was by the extraordinary Gino Bechi whose voice (Gobi-esque) seemed so closely suited to his role, snarling his way through 'Invano , Alvaro ' that it has always stayed with me. In case you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdbEs5FKEsM

[Master Jacques]

... the one performance that stuck in my mind was by the extraordinary Gino Bechi whose voice (Gobi-esque) seemed so closely suited to his role, snarling his way through 'Invano , Alvaro ' that it has always stayed with me.]

Bechi was memorable, gradus, I agree; the trouble is that such "snarling" is not even half the story. It makes something operatically two-dimensional of the youthful, blinkered Carlos and removes sympathy from one side of the triangle. This is a young man forced by old notions of Spanish, aristocratic honour to seek out and kill his father's murderer and who becomes obsessed by the quest. He finds what he has lacked - a close friend whom he loves and in whom he can confide - only to discover that this new friend is the very man he must pursue and kill. All this is put across in music of great power and remarkable intuitive insight. Carlos is as much a tragic figure as the other two, not a mustachio-curling villain of melodrama.

[edashtav]

Master Jacques wrote:
"Personally, I thought this was a shocker. The 'chat' format ill-suited such a complex, deep opera as La forza del destino, which was reduced absurdly to something like La forza de Leonora"

By its end I felt this BAL contracted into "La Forza de Leontyne: The Price is Right". But, that wasn't the fault of the presenters whose destiny was etched on discs, some of them old enough to be classified as antiques. Boarders sometimes complain that classic versions are ditched too soon on BAL, that was not true this morning.

However, there is a tension between Opera "then" : a vehicle for stars, and the 21st century concept which requires a team effort and a basic competence e.g. in acting, from all, including the finest singers.

Master Jacques was right, we were never taken to the complex heart of this opera and I was left wondering whether a set exists that does the work full justice?

[Conchis]

I think the Levine recording with Price, Domingo and Milnes is easily the best ever made - but it will get short shrift from this BAL because of the opprobrium that now attaches to the name of its conductor.

[Conchis]

I attended my first 'La forza del destino' at Semperoper, Dresden last May. A long epic opera but a most exciting and rewarding production by Keith Warner. It was Mark Wigglesworth conducting the Staatskapelle Dresden.

Marchese di Calatrava / Il Padre Guardiano – Stephen Milling
Donna Leonora – Emily Magee
Don Carlo di Vargas – Alexey Markov
Don Alvaro – Marcelo Puente
Preziosilla / Curra – Christina Bock

With a name like that, I hope he steers clear of men with Russian accents wielding brollies!

[gradus]

Bechi was memorable, gradus, I agree; the trouble is that such "snarling" is not even half the story. It makes something operatically two-dimensional of the youthful, blinkered Carlos and removes sympathy from one side of the triangle. This is a young man forced by old notions of Spanish, aristocratic honour to seek out and kill his father's murderer and who becomes obsessed by the quest. He finds what he has lacked - a close friend whom he loves and in whom he can confide - only to discover that this new friend is the very man he must pursue and kill. All this is put across in music of great power and remarkable intuitive insight. Carlos is as much a tragic figure as the other two, not a mustachio-curling villain of melodrama.

Well yes, but at this point Bechi's approach is entirely justified and it is a remarkable recording. Beyond the excerpt who can say what he would have made of it, as I don't think he features in any complete recording. I should also have added recognition of Lauri-Volpi for his fine singing.

[Master Jacques]

I think the Levine recording with Price, Domingo and Milnes is easily the best ever made - but it will get short shrift from this BAL because of the opprobrium that now attaches to the name of its conductor.

Conchis puts the case succinctly, edashtav. The Levine set has everything going for it, and (unlike the Schippers) is uncut. I would like to think that it wasn't ruled out because of the sexual transgressions of the conductor, but I share these doubts.

[Conchis]

Conchis puts the case succinctly, edashtav. The Levine set has everything going for it, and (unlike the Schippers) is uncut. I would like to think that it wasn't ruled out because of the sexual transgressions of the conductor, but I share these doubts.

They could have referred to it as 'the 1976 RCA (now Sony) version, featuring Price, Domingo and Milnes' and people would have understood, I think. Or are the BBC duty-bound not to potentially direct funds toward a known reprobate?

[LeMartinPecheur]

Given comments on scripting on another thread, I wonder how much of the 'interchanges' are scripted...

Even if it's not fully scripted, doesn't there have to be a good deal of 'pre-agreement', shall we say, so that the excerpts under discussion blend slickly in with the 'conversation'?

i can't quite believe that post-editing could make it all flow so smoothly. In this respect at least

[Nick Armstrong]

Personally, I thought this was a shocker.

Yes, pretty unlistenable-to, for various reasons I always hope something is going to unlock Verdi for me, but this chat wasn't it. The nattering and the music got on my nerves after a while and I fast-forwarded to the end out of vague interest to see who'd "won". Won't be costing me a cent though.

[Master Jacques]

Even if it's not fully scripted, doesn't there have to be a good deal of 'pre-agreement', shall we say, so that the excerpts under discussion blend slickly in with the 'conversation'?

i can't quite believe that post-editing could make it all flow so smoothly. In this respect at least

With such an experienced and capable broadcaster as AMcG, the artistry is to lead the interviewee through to her next excerpt as seamlessly as possible. It was clear they had talked through those extracts beforehand, but I imagine post-editing was pretty much a cinch here. It's quite another question as to whether these double-handed "chat BaL's" really deliver the bacon or not. One or two have worked, but most inevitably - like this one - trivialise the work down to tabloid bants.

Does anyone actually prefer them to the traditional in-depth approach, I wonder?

[Master Jacques]

Yes, pretty unlistenable-to, for various reasons I always hope something is going to unlock Verdi for me, but this chat wasn't it. The nattering and the music got on my nerves after a while and I fast-forwarded to the end out of vague interest to see who'd "won". Won't be costing me a cent though.

That's a shame, Caliban, because this is a superlative work, a sort of halfway house between Il trovatore and Boris Godunov. I must tell you, that many of the excerpts played hardly represented the score's most distinctive, best music. It was most curious, as if Fiona Willson wanted us to think it was all somehow rather like Montserrat Caballé meets Freddie Mercury.