BaL 9.02.19 - Beethoven: Piano Concerto no 5 in E flat "Emperor"

[Bryn]

But what is the third programme, Bryn?

The one about Scriabin.

[MickyD]

OK, thanks - sorry, I didn't read that bit!

[Mal]

Many years ago, a friend and I compared the Perahia/Haitink with the Pollini/Bohm ... Somewhat to our surprise, the Pollini was vastly superior, full of Beethovenian weight, power and momentum. The Perahia, much lauded at the time, seemed dull and lightweight in comparison.

I did a back to back comparison of Perahia/Haitink and Kovacevich/Davis/LSO and found Kovacevich far superior for exactly the same reasons. Maybe the critics have listened to Beethoven played with weight, power and momentum so many times that anything different comes as an interesting surprise. Perahia didn't do so well in this BAL, the surprise has had time to wear off (so another new surprise won... I wonder if he'll go the way of Perahia in the next BAL...)

[Barbirollians]

I did a back to back comparison of Perahia/Haitink and Kovacevich/Davis/LSO and found Kovacevich far superior for exactly the same reasons. Maybe the critics have listened to Beethoven played with weight, power and momentum so many times that anything different comes as an interesting surprise. Perahia didn't do so well in this BAL, the surprise has had time to wear off (so another new surprise won... I wonder if he'll go the way of Perahia in the next BAL...)

I collected the Perahia recordings on vinyl 1 and 2 and cassette 3 and 4 when they were first released and thought they were marvellous especially the finale of the 4th which I used to rewind over and over to listen to .

I remember that the 5th seemed underpowered to me and a relative disappointment at the time and my memory may be playing trick it I recall that it was also rather damned with faint praise at the time in Gramophone.

PS The Fourth is still marvellous

[Mal]

I remember that the 5th seemed underpowered to me and a relative disappointment at the time and my memory may be playing trick it I recall that it was also rather damned with faint praise at the time in Gramophone.

In the Gramophone 2010 guide it tops the list in the box on p.131, but does seem to be (subtly) damned with faint praise in the detailed review on on p.129! It doesn't receive a "third ear" diamond, or any praise at all, just the ambiguous one liner, "Perahia's vibrant account is unique". Have you listened to the full Kovacevich set? Both "third ear" and "Penguin" give it top marks and the highest praise (rosettes, diamonds, glowing textual endorsement) - which usually means "not to be missed". The rough guide picks him as top choice for 3 & 4 without a hint of faint praise, "... Kovacevich is expansive and poetic. His treatment of the slow movement has an intensity that is awe inspiring." I agree (and it's only £0.45 on Amazon UK!)

[Bryn]

Way back in 1974, I was living in Cardiff for around 9 months. I had no turntable with me and was relying on cassettes for music. I found the Ashkenazy/Solti set at a very reasonable price in a shop more oriented towards pop music. The set served me well then but I have not replaced it with the CD alternative since. Until today, that is. I just found and ordered the set of 3 CDs plus Blu-ray Audio for £8.99 including p&p via eBay. Crossed fingers that the discs are in very good condition, as claimed.

[Barbirollians]

In the Gramophone 2010 guide it tops the list in the box on p.131, but does seem to be (subtly) damned with faint praise in the detailed review on on p.129! It doesn't receive a "third ear" diamond, or any praise at all, just the ambiguous one liner, "Perahia's vibrant account is unique". Have you listened to the full Kovacevich set? Both "third ear" and "Penguin" give it top marks and the highest praise (rosettes, diamonds, glowing textual endorsement) - which usually means "not to be missed". The rough guide picks him as top choice for 3 & 4 without a hint of faint praise, "... Kovacevich is expansive and poetic. His treatment of the slow movement has an intensity that is awe inspiring." I agree (and it's only £0.45 on Amazon UK!)

I have owned the Kovacevich / Davis recordings for a good long while . I thought I put that account high up in original post on this thread - off topic I think my favourite record of all from that pairing is the coupling of K467 and 503 .

Gramophone's archive shows that Stephen Plaistow and Robert Layton both praised the Perania highly when it first appeared in 1987 but Richard Osborne was slightly underwhelmed when it was released on CD later in the year.

[Goon525]

I much preferred the Kovacevich/Davis Schumann Grieg coupling to the Lupu/Previn, which seemed to be the highest rated back in the 70s. Oh, and Ashkenazy/Solti was my first Beethoven cycle, and I liked it very much - but honestly didn’t have much basis of comparison back then.

[richardfinegold]

Way back in 1974, I was living in Cardiff for around 9 months. I had no turntable with me and was relying on cassettes for music. I found the Ashkenazy/Solti set at a very reasonable price in a shop more oriented towards pop music. The set served me well then but I have not replaced it with the CD alternative since. Until today, that is. I just found and ordered the set of 3 CDs plus Blu-ray Audio for £8.99 including p&p via eBay. Crossed fingers that the discs are in very good condition, as claimed.

I ordered the same set, based on HDs recommendation. I’ve only listened to the Blu Ray, once through, and then went on vacation. I enjoyed the first four Concertos but became distracted during the Emperor so haven’t formed an opinion yet.

[visualnickmos]

Ashkenazy/Solti - a fabulous set of Beethoven's piano concertos, and in my opinion, for what it's worth, very well-recorded sound. Putting Solti and Chicago in the same sentence, and you've got a sure-fire winner!

[BBMmk2]

H

Ashkenazy/Solti - a fabulous set of Beethoven's piano concertos, and in my opinion, for what it's worth, very well-recorded sound. Putting Solti and Chicago in the same sentence, and you've got a sure-fire winner!

Quite so. One of the best out there.

[Barbirollians]

Not sure whether it has come up for discussion above but another performance .Schnabel’s account from the early 1940s in Chicago. The accompaniment is rather brusque and vigorous but Schnabel is very special.

[richardfinegold]

The Ashkenazy-Solti didn’t do much for me. I think it’s the weakest of the set. It probably would have been satisfying in the Hall but compared to the ferocious competition it doesn’t cut it. It’s very deliberate and tentative without much of sparkle. There doesn’t seem to be much give and take; it made me wonder if the parts were recorded separately. Of course the standard of playing is still quite high, and on Blu Ray it’s very detailed, but compared to my long time favorite Fleisher/Szell, it really pales.
I’m listening to the end of Perahia-Haitink now. I don’t know why people have been trashing it here. My only quibble is that the momentum flags a small bit in the finale. Still a real contender.
Another dark horse that I have enjoyed is the Rubinstein \Krips mentioned in the headnote. It’s part of a Living Stereo, Volume II box. Rubinstein takes a few odd retards, otherwise this is Hall of Fame material

[BBMmk2]

The Fleisher/Szell, is that a Mercury recording, RFG?

[Tony Halstead]

The Fleisher/Szell, is that a Mercury recording, RFG?

CBS. My favourite 'modern instrument' recording (although LF was probably playing a New York Steinway made in the 1930s-1940s!)