BaL 12.1.19 - Prokofiev: Violin concerto 1 in D

[edashtav]

A BaL coming up is a great way to make you focus on a work. I've listened to the recordings I have:

Szigeti/Stiedry (1940)
Oistrakh/von Matačić (1954)
Bell/Dutoit (1992)
Josefowicz/Dutoit (1999)

All with something to offer but I'll go for Oistrakh in good sounding 1954 Abbey Road mono with LSO.

Yes, I've moved on, maybe backwards, from Stern/Ormandy to Oistrakh/von Matačić (1954) and find the latter the most satisfying of my 3 recorded accounts. But, 65 years on from that classic, I may be in the market for something new from RR, given that the work is now a 100 years old antique, and may, or may not, sound better after the removal of many decades of performing accretions.

[pastoralguy]

What I've noticed about the more modern recordings is that the orchestral detail is so much more apparent revealing that's it's beautifully scored.

[edashtav]

What I've noticed about the more modern recordings is that the orchestral detail is so much more apparent revealing that's it's beautifully scored.

Sometimes a silvery violin transcending a muddy grey orchestra has a phosphorescent beauty of its own, pastoralguy. First among equals may not always be best!

[verismissimo]

The David Oistrakh recordings I have are:
Kondrashin USSR Radio (?State) Symphony 6/1953
Von Matacic LSO 21/11/1954
Moscow Philharmonic 7/9/1963 (Brilliant live)
Sanderling Berlin Symphony 19/4/1971

Thanks for flagging these up, MA. I discover that I have the 1963 recording with the Moscow Philharmonic in the Brilliant 100th birthday box. It's conducted (live, 7 September 1963) by Kondrashin and seems first-rate to me.

[pastoralguy]

Sometimes a silvery violin transcending a muddy grey orchestra has a phosphorescent beauty of its own, pastoralguy. First among equals may not always be best!

Speaking as an ex orchestral player with a couple of fine Orchestras, being 'muddy and grey' is not what we musicians aspired to.
It's certainly not what I gave my adolescence/early adulthood for!

[BBMmk2]

Do any of the newe recordings that have been released recently,say in the past ten years, come of interest?

[jayne lee wilson]

Do any of the newe recordings that have been released recently,say in the past ten years, come of interest?

....as aforementioned (#15 above)...:

I heard the recently released Petrova/Odense SO/Poska before Christmas, and it is truly lovely - AND c/w an excellent account of the Nielsen Concerto...so if you're looking for a fresh take, try that one...

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/prokofiev-nielsen-violin-concertos-kristiina-poska-odense-symphony-orchestra-liya-petrova/dsh7pbz3jbklb

....glowingly reviewed in the Gramophone, I should add. (AF-C, 11/18 "a marvellous disc"...)

[BBMmk2]

....as aforementioned (#15 above)...:

I heard the recently released Petrova/Odense SO/Poska before Christmas, and it is truly lovely - AND c/w an excellent account of the Nielsen Concerto...so if you're looking for a fresh take, try that one...

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/prokofiev-nielsen-violin-concertos-kristiina-poska-odense-symphony-orchestra-liya-petrova/dsh7pbz3jbklb

....glowingly reviewed in the Gramophone, I should add. (AF-C, 11/18 "a marvellous disc"...)

Thanks! I will!

[Barbirollians]

Judging by her stupendous performance at the 2017 Proms with Jurowski it is a shame we do not have an Ibragimova recording.

[edashtav]

Judging by her stupendous performance at the 2017 Proms with Jurowski it is a shame we do not have an Ibragimova recording.

I agree.

[HighlandDougie]

Do any of the newe recordings that have been released recently,say in the past ten years, come of interest?

I've just bought Isabelle van Keulen with Andrew Manze conducting his NDR Orchestra. And then there is Lisa Batiashvili with Y N-S and the CoE. Both of them are just as "interesting" as fairly ancient performances where the fiddling may be stellar but the orchestral recording murky. The idea that such recordings have some kind of nacreous attraction seems to my no doubt dullard sensibilities as verging on the perverse. The work is, as PG says above, beautifully scored (check out the Batiashvili) so what's not to like about hearing it as one would in the concert hall?

[edashtav]

I've just bought Isabelle van Keulen with Andrew Manze conducting his NDR Orchestra. And then there is Lisa Batiashvili with Y N-S and the CoE. Both of them are just as "interesting" as fairly ancient performances where the fiddling may be stellar but the orchestral recording murky. The idea that such recordings have some kind of nacreous attraction seems to my no doubt dullard sensibilities as verging on the perverse. The work is, as PG says above, beautifully scored (check out the Batiashvili) so what's not to like about hearing it as one would in the concert hall?

HighlandDougie: were you watching Isadora Duncan live, would you notice whether her corps de ballet were Pam's People or the Bournemouth Bloomers?

[HighlandDougie]

HighlandDougie: were you watching Isadora Duncan live, would you notice whether her corps de ballet were Pam's People or the Bournemouth Bloomers?

The idea that one's focus is solely/primarily on the soloist - and to hell with what is going on elsewhere, whether it be Isadora Duncan or Joseph Szigeti in the starring role and any old scratch ensemble, whether dancers or musicians - seems to me to do a profound disservice to the work in question. Sorry.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

HighlandDougie: were you watching Isadora Duncan live, would you notice whether her corps de ballet were Pam's People or the Bournemouth Bloomers?

That is rather an inadequate analogy, as Isadora Duncan's self-choreography was the main attraction of her performances. It might have been more apposite if you'd suggested Anna Pavlova - to which the response would have been "That depends on whether one's priorities were going to see Pavlova or the ballet Swan Lake - if the former, then the corps doesn't really matter; if the latter, what the corps does is essential, and needs to be a top-rank team and needs to be seen clearly."

Prokofiev's Concertos aren't Wienewski's - they are superbly-crafted works for soloist and orchestra; a "muddy grey orchestral sound" would be as bad for the work as would a third-rate soloist, in that in both cases, the composer's craft and imagination is lost.

[edashtav]

That is rather an inadequate analogy, as Isadora Duncan's self-choreography was the main attraction of her performances. It might have been more apposite if you'd suggested Anna Pavlova - to which the response would have been "That depends on whether one's priorities were going to see Pavlova or the ballet Swan Lake - if the former, then the corps doesn't really matter; if the latter, what the corps does is essential, and needs to be a top-rank team and needs to be seen clearly."

Prokofiev's Concertos aren't Wienewski's - they are superbly-crafted works for soloist and orchestra; a "muddy grey orchestral sound" would be as bad for the work as would a third-rate soloist, in that in both cases, the composer's craft and imagination is lost.

Of course, both you and Highland Dougie write a lot of sense, Ferney,and I was unnecessarily provocative. I did suggest a wider point - balance- without a lot of engineering care Prokofiev's orchestration can reduce the impact of the soloist who may be reduced to the first amongst equals. Yes, Wieniawski's orchestration is poor and wooden, but I tell you and HD straight that there's been many a live Chopin concerto when I've prayed for the orchestra to stop: not only is the orchestration worse Wieniawski's in muddling muddiness but it's often mere repetition of what the soloist has played. Ye Gods... fetch me strong drink.