BaL 12.1.19 - Prokofiev: Violin concerto 1 in D

[Barbirollians]

Of course, both you and Highland Dougie write a lot of sense, Ferney,and I was unnecessarily provocative. I did suggest a wider point - balance- without a lot of engineering care Prokofiev's orchestration can reduce the impact of the soloist who may be reduced to the first amongst equals. Yes, Wieniawski's orchestration is poor and wooden, but I tell you and HD straight that there's been many a live Chopin concerto when I've prayed for the orchestra to stop: not only is the orchestration worse Wieniawski's in muddling muddiness but it's often mere repetition of what the soloist has played. Ye Gods... fetch me strong drink.

I am far from sure I entirely agree with HD and fhgl here - for example in the Elgar concerto give me Menuhin and Elgar in 1932 rather than the worthy Little and Davis in modern sound and Krasner /Webern in the Berg over some more recent performances.

[mikealdren]

The old (1953, just a bit younger than me!) Oistrakh has murky orchestral sound but the violin works wonderfully against the 'shimmering' sound and produces an amazing atmosphere. Every note seems to matter but nothing stands out, it's all part of the overall conception. Typical Oistrakh!

I've tried some of my more modern recordings today to see how they compare. Sitkovetsky/Davis is very good and there are lots of interesting orchestral details. Sarah Chang's version has even more interesting detail appearing but the playing is dull, there's no real tension and poetry in the playing. Vilde Frang is quite different, lots of character and the 2nd movement is really fast, convincing in its own way.

I've got to work my way through Vengerov, Fischer, Stern, Milstein and the other Oistrakh performances.

[pastoralguy]

I am far from sure I entirely agree with HD and fhgl here - for example in the Elgar concerto give me Menuhin and Elgar in 1932 rather than the worthy Little and Davis in modern sound and Krasner /Webern in the Berg over some more recent performances.

Sorry, but for me, Nigel with either Handley or Rattle in the Elgar. Much as I revear Menuhin and the composer there's no doubt that the modern recordings reveal much more of Elgar's orchestration.

[Barbirollians]

Sorry, but for me, Nigel with either Handley or Rattle in the Elgar. Much as I revear Menuhin and the composer there's no doubt that the modern recordings reveal much more of Elgar's orchestration.

That is the point though PG - I think we get different things from different performances and that applies regardless of sound quality .

For example as much as I recently enjoyed listening to Batiashvili 's recording of the Brahms with Thielemann largely for her playing ( the accompaniment was a bit anonymous ) I then played the mono Haendel/Celi recording on Testament which I found much more moving and exciting - for all that it is early 1950s mono the performance transcended the recording.

So for the reasons also referred to above about the Oistrakh Prokofiev 1 I do not think matters are as clear cut as they appear to be for HD.

[pastoralguy]

That is the point though PG - I think we get different things from different performances and that applies regardless of sound quality .

For example as much as I recently enjoyed listening to Batiashvili 's recording of the Brahms with Thielemann largely for her playing ( the accompaniment was a bit anonymous ) I then played the mono Haendel/Celi recording on Testament which I found much more moving and exciting - for all that it is early 1950s mono the performance transcended the recording.

So for the reasons also referred to above about the Oistrakh Prokofiev 1 I do not think matters are as clear cut as they appear to be for HD.

Well I'd certainly agree that the performance is the most important aspect but there's no denying that a superlative performance that's well recorded is a great thing to behold.

[richardfinegold]

Well I'd certainly agree that the performance is the most important aspect but there's no denying that a superlative performance that's well recorded is a great thing to behold.

A great recording can enhance a wonderful performance so much

[Alison]

Has anyone mentioned Ehnes/BBC Philharmonic/Noseda?

A wholly satisfying reading with no playing to the gallery.

[Alison]

Not madly keen on Kate Molleson but will try and keep an open mind!

[Barbirollians]

Not madly keen on Kate Molleson but will try and keep an open mind!

Julia Fischer’s performance on Pentatone with the late Yakov Kreizberg is very fine and superbly recorded.

[mikealdren]

Julia Fischer’s performance on Pentatone with the late Yakiv Kreizberg is very fine and superbly recorded.

Prompted by your post, I started with Julia Fischer this morning, it's marvellous, beautifully recorded and accompanied and she really understands the music. I'm coming to the view that this piece depends on the soloist understanding how to make music of the passage work and Julia Fischer is very successful. So too, not surprisingly, is Milstein although his recording is rather old now and can't compare.

Szigeti was next on my list and he starts with some of the most beautiful playing. He's full of imaginative touches but sadly his technique is stretched at times, definitely a performance to hear but not a sole library recommendation.

Stern (his earlier version with Mitropoulos) sounds as though he has just Oistrakh's recording but it doesn't have the latter's sense of 'rightness' about it all, he hasn't lived with piece enough. It's also surprisingly poor technically, not just his usual intonation issues.

Finally Vengerov. No technical issues here of course and a modern recording too but it doesn't work for me. It's very sweet and gentle, no sharp edges and the first mvmt is rather too slow. There's none of Oistrakh's deep emotional response. Perhaps he should re-record it.

[DracoM]

Good grief! Whatever final decision she comes to, the ecstatic, swooning, way, way OTT delivery.........crikey! Please no, no, no. This is not a review but a series of love letters.

[underthecountertenor]

I’d say that most of what she has said so far has been pretty much spot-on, with a lot of acute observations, and an imaginative and telling choice of descriptive words and phrases.

[BBMmk2]

Good grief! Whatever final decision she comes to, the ecstatic, swooning, way, way OTT delivery.........crikey! Please no, no, no. This is not a review but a series of love letters.

I’ve been thinking of what you e said DracoM. I totally disagree. I think this is a highly thought out review. The details she argues with each recording,is very fair and precise.

[Bryn]

I’d say that most of what she has said so far has been pretty much spot-on, with a lot of acute observations, and an imaginative and telling choice of adjectives.

Seconded. I have a feeling that, whatever it turns out to be, I will go with her recommendation. There again, I already have the Zimmerman, so it's just the Frang to get.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I’d say that most of what she has said so far has been pretty much spot-on, with a lot of acute observations, and an imaginative and telling choice of descriptive words and phrases.

Ah - I'm more of DracoM's opinion - that the "imaginative and telling choice of descriptive words and phrases" is (to paraphrase her own description of the Chung recording) more concerned with Molleson than with Prokofiev.

Heigh-ho; chacun a son wotsit, and all that ...