BaL 22.12.18 - Vivaldi: Gloria RV589

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't think it's her speed of delivery in itself that's the problem. I find that she mumbles. Some consonants just get lost, so I struggle to work out what the word is, and then with the rapid delivery I find I have lost a whole sentence or several before I know it. This must be a bit like what English sounds like to a foreigner who doesn't understand it. A pity, because when I can understand it, I find what Ms Gill has to say very interesting.

- That is how I responded, too.

For all that, I much prefer this "dry, dusty academic" approach to the wet, mouldy matey delivery of those reviewers who seem terrified of sounding as if they're taking the subject seriously.

[Goon525]

I had no difficulty following her. I’m a little surprised that so many here found her delivery a little too presto, though yes, she was obviously reading a script.. And yes, she did explain what SPAV meant. Would have liked a few more versions illustrated though.

[vinteuil]

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... i much enjoyed this BaL, and liked her approach. I didn't totally 'agree' with her praise for the Schola Pietatis Antonio Vivaldi (SPAV) : I found the voice she so much prized unbeguiling.

Yes, it's a pity she didn't have time to cover more performances - but it was an introduction for me to the Collegium 90 and the Taverner Consort recordings, now acquired...



.

[ardcarp]

I'm afraid I disagree about her approach, Vints. Much of what she said about singing...and especially 'difficulty.'... just didn't make sense to me. This is Baroque-lite, and none the worse for it....just a joyous frolic with a few bits of faux-seriousness to suit the words. Why complicate a rather straightforward piece?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'm afraid I disagree about her approach, Vints. Much of what she said about singing...and especially 'difficulty.'... just didn't make sense to me. This is Baroque-lite, and none the worse for it....just a joyous frolic with a few bits of faux-seriousness to suit the words. Why complicate a rather straightforward piece?

Yes - I was puzzled by this apsect of the presentation. CG seemed to be referring to suggestions (that I was unaware of) that the work was too difficult for the all-female choir he regularly worked with? But it's a (relatively) "easy" work to sing! I, too, felt that too much attention was paid to this "suggestion", whatever its source.

[oddoneout]

I don't think it's her speed of delivery in itself that's the problem. I find that she mumbles. Some consonants just get lost, so I struggle to work out what the word is, and then with the rapid delivery I find I have lost a whole sentence or several before I know it. This must be a bit like what English sounds like to a foreigner who doesn't understand it. A pity, because when I can understand it, I find what Ms Gill has to say very interesting.

Sums up my reaction. I also agree with dovers comment - #33 - about the soprano Ms Gill praised so highly. The SPAV abbreviation was a casualty of the high speed mumble; I just caught Societa Pietas... and then something to the effect of 'from hereon referred to as SPAV'

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

To be fair on the reviewer, many Radio 3 presenters used to sound a bit like this, though perhaps less stilted.

And many of us prefer not being treated like toddlers.

[vinteuil]

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... apologies for confusion : I have had to correct my #48 - I originally said I didn't 'agree' with her praise for the winner : what I meant was her praise for the SPAV recording.

In the end of course she chose Collegium 90 as a 'winner', and I'm very happy to agree with that.



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[gurnemanz]

Just listened again on iPlayer (got to pass the time somehow till Match of the Day comes on - Man City 2 South London 3). I enjoyed it very much, not at all worried about her clipped diction or speed of delivery. I liked her turns of phrase (she got the word "supernova" in somewhere along the way) and her pleasingly convincing pronunciation of Italian. Many BaL reviewers don't bother. Sara Mingardo got dismissed - justifiably, I will reluctantly admit, since I love the sound she makes, but at least her name was exquisitely enunciated.

This piece might be "easy" as some have pointed out. This doesn't mean it's easy to get right. Our choir have done it several times and I love it. (And I'm afraid I did song along)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

This piece might be "easy" as some have pointed out. This doesn't mean it's easy to get right. Our choir have done it several times and I love it. (And I'm afraid I did song along)

Indeed - but did you follow what CG was saying (if I understood her correctly) about other people suggesting that it might have been "too difficult" for the girls and young women of the orphanage?

[HighlandDougie]

Indeed - but did you follow what CG was saying (if I understood her correctly) about other people suggesting that it might have been "too difficult" for the girls and young women of the orphanage?

Well I certainly could see where she was coming from. Her thesis (that all-women vocal performances confounded the notion about it being "too difficult") would have carried more weight had she provided some examples of who had made the "too difficult" suggestion, although I have no reason to disbelieve what she said. I thoroughly enjoyed it as a BaL, the occasional presentational shortcoming aside. I know zilch about early 18th century music-making in Venice (or anywhere else) and maybe she was belabouring the point but I did at least feel that she cared passionately about the music (and knew what she was talking about). I think that:

http://www.spav.co.uk/SPAVdocumentary.html

helps explain her stance.

[Bryn]

Well I certainly could see where she was coming from. Her thesis (that all-women vocal performances confounded the notion about it being "too difficult") would have carried more weight had she provided some examples of who had made the "too difficult" suggestion, although I have no reason to disbelieve what she said. I thoroughly enjoyed it as a BaL, the occasional presentational shortcoming aside. I did at least feel that she cared passionately about the music (and knew what she was talking about).

http://www.spav.co.uk/SPAVdocumentary.html

I know zilch about early 18th century music-making in Venice (or anywhere else) and maybe she was overdoing

In particular:

[Master Jacques]

I must say I agree with other contributors who found the reviewer's presentation and broadcasting failures let her down - indeed, I found them so distracting as to undercut her real knowledge of and love for the music. Does nobody give BaL presenters any help with basic radio skills, such as speaking clearly and not gabbling? It sounded to me as if, having written the whole thing out, she found it was ten minutes too long and simply read the wretched thing out at double speed.

As for her counter-assertion challenging the idea that the women's singing may not have been up to complex music, it struck me as comparable to Dame Veronica Wedgewood's line about a certain Queen, in her wonderful history of the Thirty Years War: "Elizabeth of Bohemia was a very beautiful woman, far more so than her portraits show". More evidence, please!

[DracoM]

To be fair on the reviewer, many Radio 3 presenters used to sound a bit like this, though perhaps less stilted.

And many of us prefer not being treated like toddlers.

Well, for me, it was NOT the 'accent ' -stilted or otherwise - but the sheer vertiginous speed / whole sentences of gabbles with which she delivered much good info. Knew her stuff, yes, but at the end, did we?

[Beef Oven!]

You said that without moving your lips.....

Bercow may be fooled, but others maybe not!