BaL 27.10.18 - Purcell: King Arthur

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  • ferneyhoughgeliebte
    Gone fishin'
    • Sep 2011
    • 30163

    #16
    Rather good - and I was particularly taken with the Christie and Niquet excerpts.
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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    • Bryn
      Banned
      • Mar 2007
      • 24688

      #17
      Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
      Rather good - and I was particularly taken with the Christie and Niquet excerpts.
      Yes, and I do not concur with her regarding Niquet's tempi. Music of Purcell's time is all too often performed rather more slowly than I feel best serves it.

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      • Master Jacques
        Full Member
        • Feb 2012
        • 1767

        #18
        For me, this was a BaL of missed opportunities. Although Dr. Gibson did give us a fair whistle-stop tour of the score (and a glimpse of some wacky approaches to it) I can't help wondering if her academic sobriety, and the sense that she was reading straight from the written page, can have inspired much interest in Purcell's great masterpiece from newcomers. Having known and loved the work for more years than I care to remember, I stand happily open to correction on that point, of course!

        Yet more seriously, the review avoided any contact with Dryden and Purcell's musico-dramatic politics, which - especially these days - remain the elephant in the room. As it was, the impression given was of a trivial piece with some nice, fairly incidental music: to describe the Act V Masque as a "rag bag of songs" betrayed a disconcerting failure to explore King Arthur's deep power as national music theatre - or how the various recordings reflect that.

        Christie is of course a perfectly defensible choice, musically; although some of his principals deliver Dryden's text in too occluded or unidiomatic a way to make much of it, in marked contrast to Gardiner's and Pinnock's singers. And some of the "hangovers" evident from the Erato recording's origins in a stage production are ... well, disconcerting. Strictly as singing, Lewis's version still heads the lists, and surely we did not hear enough of this classic version.

        What I found curious, was to be asked to evaluate DVDs on aural grounds. Gibson did sketch in a little about productions we couldn't see, but not enough to justify giving them so much air time, in what must essentially be an audio-based comparative review. Surely space should have been made for at least something from somebody's version of "How Blest Are Shepherds" (whether or not in Wilfred Brown's "desert island" version!) rather than spending quite so much time on a toe-curling, broken-English "pop" rendition of "Our Hay it is Mowed" , which might work OK on DVD but certainly did not on radio. One verse of that would have been quite enough to make the point!

        Perhaps Dr. Gibson wasn't give enough time; but I felt that she could - and should - have made rather more astute use of what she was given.
        Last edited by Master Jacques; 27-10-18, 11:37.

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        • gurnemanz
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 7308

          #19
          Just came across France Musique's "blind" review from 2016. Pinnock 1st, Christie 5th.

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          • ferneyhoughgeliebte
            Gone fishin'
            • Sep 2011
            • 30163

            #20
            Originally posted by Bryn View Post
            Yes, and I do not concur with her regarding Niquet's tempi. Music of Purcell's time is all too often performed rather more slowly than I feel best serves it.
            [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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            • ferneyhoughgeliebte
              Gone fishin'
              • Sep 2011
              • 30163

              #21
              Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post
              Just came across France Musique's "blind" review from 2016. Pinnock 1st, Christie 5th.
              So - "deaf" as well as "blind"?

              (I didn't at all like the Ambridge Village Choir's contributions that we heard this morning. )
              [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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              • Master Jacques
                Full Member
                • Feb 2012
                • 1767

                #22
                Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                I didn't at all like the Ambridge Village Choir's contributions that we heard this morning.
                A horribly accurate way of putting it! That miscalculation is indeed an infamous "blip" in the Pinnock version, especially as the soloist so carefully enunciates his glottal stops for "our 'ay it is mowed", a prissy nicety which at least the "Ambridge" chorus avoid.

                On tempi, to be fair to Dr. Gibson she also criticized Pinnock's reverentially slow tempo for "Fairest Isle". (For that, give me Heather Harper and Lewis any day.)

                To my mind, there is as much danger in sprinting through Purcell's score than in lingering over it. What too often goes missing by pushing forward, is that vital sense (special to his music) of time somehow standing still. I don't suppose contemporary audiences couldn't wait for the music to finish quick enough, but that's what is sometimes conveyed in current performances.

                Christie for example is brilliant at revealing the score's febrile French roots, rather less so at luxuriating in its very English, bucolic relaxation.

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                • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                  Gone fishin'
                  • Sep 2011
                  • 30163

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Master Jacques View Post
                  To my mind, there is as much danger in sprinting through Purcell's score than in lingering over it. What too often goes missing by pushing forward, is that vital sense (special to his music) of time somehow standing still.
                  Oh, yes - I know what you mean. I don't know Arthur at all well, but it's certainly there in Fairy Queen, at "Hush! No more" ... where five-and-a-half minutes can seem marvellously to pass simultaneously in a single breath and total stillness. But I think that this effect is enhanced when such a moment is set in contrast to a lively, vigorous "environment".

                  Christie for example is brilliant at revealing the score's febrile French roots, rather less so at luxuriating in its very English, bucolic relaxation.
                  An interesting and thought-provoking comment, MJ (as was, I thought, your #18) - many thanks.
                  [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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                  • Barbirollians
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 11397

                    #24
                    Was Christie the Library choice ? Looks like an excellent cast of singers.

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                    • BBMmk2
                      Late Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 20908

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
                      Was Christie the Library choice ? Looks like an excellent cast of singers.
                      I believe so.
                      Don’t cry for me
                      I go where music was born

                      J S Bach 1685-1750

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                      • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                        Gone fishin'
                        • Sep 2011
                        • 30163

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
                        Was Christie the Library choice ? Looks like an excellent cast of singers.
                        - it was.
                        [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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                        • teamsaint
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 25099

                          #27
                          As an aside, yet again a baroque BaL presented by a female reviewer.

                          I’m not saying that R3 should check their track record of where baroque and smaller scale works are reviewed by women, and big orchestral by men,but it does seem to happen pretty often. Although in fact I am saying that they perhaps ought to check.
                          I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                          I am not a number, I am a free man.

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                          • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                            Gone fishin'
                            • Sep 2011
                            • 30163

                            #28
                            Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
                            As an aside, yet again a baroque BaL presented by a female reviewer.
                            I’m not saying that R3 should check their track record of where baroque and smaller scale works are reviewed by women, and big orchestral by men,but it does seem to happen pretty often. Although in fact I am saying that they perhaps ought to check.
                            It's an interesting feature you've noticed, ts - but it might not (I don't know) be Beeb in origin: if reviewers are selected on their specialist skills (Prof Gibson specialises in English Music between Dowland and Purcell, for example) and again if women tend to focus on studying Baroque/Early Music, then there will tend to be more women featured in this repertoire on BaLs. It would be interesting to find out if Early Music does tend to attract greater numbers of women students than men, and/or more than later repertoires.

                            You're right - it does seem a little "disproportionate" (if not unfair) that women reviewers should keep the better works to themselves!
                            [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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                            • zola
                              Full Member
                              • May 2011
                              • 656

                              #29
                              [QUOTE=teamsaint;703568]
                              I’m not saying that R3 should check their track record of where baroque and smaller scale works are reviewed by women, and big orchestral by men,but it does seem to happen pretty often. QUOTE]

                              Unless it's a Russian piece, then it will be Marina

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                              • Master Jacques
                                Full Member
                                • Feb 2012
                                • 1767

                                #30
                                Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                                Oh, yes - I know what you mean. I don't know Arthur at all well, but it's certainly there in Fairy Queen, at "Hush! No more" ... where five-and-a-half minutes can seem marvellously to pass simultaneously in a single breath and total stillness. But I think that this effect is enhanced when such a moment is set in contrast to a lively, vigorous "environment".
                                Beautifully put - and a perfect example of the Purcellian quality I was trying (hesitantly) to convey.

                                On the question as to whether there are a majority of women reviewers for Baroque BaLs, that worries me no jot. What does, is the increasing preference for academics (who can tell us something about the works and social or gender context) over performers (who can tell us more about the performances) and people who are expert in the recorded history of said works (who can illuminate comparative aspects of the actual recordings we're hearing).

                                In their anxiety to tell us what ought to be there, these eminent academics often miss what is there, and therefore fail to flag up matters vital for pleasurable listening. They also tend to be less superlative broadcasters. The dice seem to be heavily loaded against employing professional broadcasting record enthusiasts these days, which rather misses - in my opinion - the point of a programme called Record Review as opposed to Academic Notes and Queries!

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