BaL 23.06.18 - Debussy: Sonata for Violin and Piano

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

How did the new Capaucon recording rate?

Yes they are 'modern' but the are only two and good as the players are, they are not the modern equivalent of Heifetz of Oistrakh. I did enjoy the review of performing tradition but we could easily have dispensed with Oistrakh, Heifetz, Perlman and Mutter and concentrated on some more serious contenders. I have the Pike Roscoe recording and it's very good but I think several others are at least as good but weren't considered. From a library point of view, a missed opportunity.

The new (2017) Capucon/Chamayou was one of her five "selected in no particular order" final choices. (The others were Bartok/Szigeti; Joshua Bell/Thibauldet; Pike/Roscoe - and one I can't get to correspond with any on Alpie's list - it sounded something like "Poulez/Lee" )

Of Capucon, she commented that he "manages to achieve a sense of continuity and forward drive that makes the faux-naif section entirely convincing" and recommended it "for their wonderfully rich sound and impassioned playing".

Mike - I don't think that I've understood your point: you say that Pike and Waley-Cohen "are not the equivalent of Heifetz or Oistrakh", but that "we could easily have dispensed with" those two anyway. Given that at least three of the most approved-of recordings come from the past eight years - and that there are some Forumistas who are upset that there was too much bias towards these new recordings (and I agree that the celebrated Chung should have been featured) - I'd be grateful if you could name which of the more recent recordings by today's "modern equivalents of Heifetz or Oistrakh" that you were thinking of.

[mikealdren]

Pike and Waley-Cohen are fine players but not among the world's top players (as Oistrakh andf Heifetz were), I suspect very few outside the uk will have heard of them. No problem and their recordings are excellent but why have fine recordings by so many contemporary world famous players not ignored.

[PJPJ]

The new (2017) Capucon/Chamayou was one of her five "selected in no particular order" final choices. (The others were Bartok/Szigeti; Joshua Bell/Thibauldet; Pike/Roscoe - and one I can't get to correspond with any on Alpie's list - it sounded something like "Poulez/Lee" )........snip

I think it's Gaston Poulet.

Amazon link with other Poulet-Lee releases

Sorry - Gerard Poulet

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think it's Gaston Poulet.

Amazon link with other Poulet-Lee releases

[HighlandDougie]

Yes, I re-listened to Chung/Lupu the night before, and didn't hear anything to surpass it. There seems to be a tendency to ignore the "leaders of the pack". In a way this is good, it means living artists get some money from CD sales! But it also means you shouldn't expect to hear the best on BAL.

We've kind of been here before but I will repeat that the one BaL reviewer of my acquaintance has emphasised to me in conversation that the reviewers have the freedom to do what they are asked to do, i.e. recommend a recording, without any kind of editorial steer/influence. And, as for Chung/Lupu, yes, it's a fine performance but, as Dr Rae emphasised, she had decided to concentrate on a relatively small number of recordings which for her stood out as showing a particular understanding of the music. On that criterion, one can only assume that Chung didn't cut the mustard as opposed to her favoured five recordings.

[jonfan]

The slightest hint of bias in criticism by reviewers would lose the respect of collectors. RR, and magazines such as Gramophone and BBC Music, value their integrity as independent from commercial pressure from labels. Many times a feature in Gramophone has extolled a recording with interviews with artists and producers only for the performance to be less than fulsomely welcomed in the review section.

[Stanfordian]

We've kind of been here before but I will repeat that the one BaL reviewer of my acquaintance has emphasised to me in conversation that the reviewers have the freedom to do what they are asked to do, i.e. recommend a recording, without any kind of editorial steer/influence. And, as for Chung/Lupu, yes, it's a fine performance but, as Dr Rae emphasised, she had decided to concentrate on a relatively small number of recordings which for her stood out as showing a particular understanding of the music. On that criterion, one can only assume that Chung didn't cut the mustard as opposed to her favoured five recordings.

I've always thought that reviews should to be used as guides only. This is only one person's opinion. A personal view based on a wide range of opinions often entrenched, feelings and emotions and even prejudices known or unknown. There is evidence that the first recording of a work that we get to know sticks with us.

If Wilfred Brown's recording of Finzi's Dies Natalis is not chosen next week it won't prevent me from still loving it and it won't make me rush out to buy the recommended version.

[Richard Barrett]

I've always thought that reviews should to be used as guides only. This is only one person's opinion. A personal view based on a wide range of opinions often entrenched, feelings and emotions and even prejudices known or unknown. There is evidence that the first recording of a work that we get to know sticks with us.

This is all true. And where BaL is concerned I almost always find the discussions on here more interesting than the programme! What this particular discussion shows is that people look for different things in a performance of Debussy's violin sonata. There are so many good performers around these days that hearing a recording that expresses clearly and with artistic flair what Debussy wrote is not difficult. For me the reason Capuçon is the first choice is that it's a beautiful performance combined with beautiful performances of the other two sonatas, which I tend to like listening to all together; occasions on which I'll want to listen to the Franck sonata (as on the Pike CD), on the other hand, are going to be few and far between no matter how well it's played.

[Stanfordian]

This is all true. And where BaL is concerned I almost always find the discussions on here more interesting than the programme! What this particular discussion shows is that people look for different things in a performance of Debussy's violin sonata. There are so many good performers around these days that hearing a recording that expresses clearly and with artistic flair what Debussy wrote is not difficult. For me the reason Capuçon is the first choice is that it's a beautiful performance combined with beautiful performances of the other two sonatas, which I tend to like listening to all together; occasions on which I'll want to listen to the Franck sonata (as on the Pike CD), on the other hand, are going to be few and far between no matter how well it's played.

My favourite is the Capuçon too. I have seen Pike play in local chamber recitals three times and have only been moderately impressed on the other hand her partner Roscoe who's playing I regard as top drawer. Just an opinion.

[ostuni]

This was a piece totally new to me, and Caroline Rae's survey was an excellent introduction. I heard most of it live on Sat, while doing some things around the house, and then spent much of the rest of the day in the company of much larger-scale Debussy (a fantastically well sung Pelléas in Birmingham).

I had plenty of time this morning, though, so downloaded the score, and had a proper listen to the survey. And I'd have to agree with Dr Rae: Jennifer Pike's version is both very faithful to all the score's careful markings, and also exhibits a wonderfully varied approach to articulation and tone production. I then listened all the way through the performance (streaming from Qobuz), and was all the more impressed. Pike was a violinist I knew only by name before, but on this showing, I'd definitely want to hear more of her.

Several posters mentioned Chung/Lupu, so I thought I'd have a listen to the final two movements of that, too. And Pike is far more to my taste. I find Chung's vibrato just too much (certainly more pronounced than that of Mutter and (was it?) Perlman as illustrated by Rae): the sort of sound that many big-name violinists were making in the 70s, but not the sort of thing that appeals to my personal tastes at all. There were some beautifully vivid moments (especially from Lupu), but if I'm going to listen to a modern violin soloist, then Pike's is the sort of sound I'd rather hear.

[Joseph K]

This was a piece totally new to me, and Caroline Rae's survey was an excellent introduction. I heard most of it live on Sat, while doing some things around the house, and then spent much of the rest of the day in the company of much larger-scale Debussy (a fantastically well sung Pelléas in Birmingham).

I'm jealous! I would have liked to have attended that Pelleas but alas, had to perform in a concert of the choir in which I sing (but which now I will quit...).

[ardcarp]

Rather an academic study along the lines of the much missed Interpretations on Record

It was, but I found that aspect of it quite fascinating. (I definitely would avoid Heifetz playing Debussy!) Agreed, for anyone wanting to choose 'the best' modern performance...whatever that means...it may have fallen short.

Shenkerian analysis. Aaaarrrrgghhhh!

[Pulcinella]

Shenkerian analysis. Aaaarrrrgghhhh!

I have managed to reach my ripe old state-pensionable age without being aware of Shenkerian analysis, only recently seeing it mentioned in this forum.
Not sure that I feel an overwhelming sense of urgency to learn all about it now.

[mikealdren]

It was, but I found that aspect of it quite fascinating. (I definitely would avoid Heifetz playing Debussy!) Agreed, for anyone wanting to choose 'the best' modern performance...whatever that means...it may have fallen short.

Shenkerian analysis. Aaaarrrrgghhhh!

Avoid his recording of the sonata yes but he played La fille aux cheveux de lin beautifully and Oistrakh was rather good at Clair de lune too.

[Tony Halstead]

Avoid his recording of the sonata yes but he played La fille aux cheveux de lin beautifully and Oistrakh was rather good at Clair de lune too.

I'm very happy with my CD of Sigiswald Kuijken playing the Sonata wonderfully, with Piet Kuijken eliciting beautiful sonorities from an 1894 straight-strung Erard piano. This is a totally enchanting CD comprising all of Debussy's chamber music played variously by six members of the Kuijken family plus the harpist Sophie Hallynck.