BaL 23.06.18 - Debussy: Sonata for Violin and Piano

[Barbirollians]

It seems that this thread has turned like so many others into a discussion of whether the markings in a score are a guide or a prescription.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

That is a brilliant post, MJ - lots to think about, and really focussed on (an extract from one movement of) Pike's recording. Before I ponder - Dr Rae didn't make that particular claim - she said on a couple of occasions that the better performances (in direct comparison of two different recordings of the same extract) the ones that were best were those that were closest to what was written in the score. This, I have very frequently found, is so often true.

(Oh, and talking of "true to the letter" - it should be "Morecambe-like". When Eric & Ernie tried to make a name for themselves in the US, comperes frequently introduced them as "Morry Camby and Wise".)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It seems that this thread has turned like so many others into a discussion of whether the markings in a score are a guide or a prescription.

- good, isn't it!

[Master Jacques]

Before I ponder - Dr Rae didn't make that particular claim - she said on a couple of occasions that the better performances (in direct comparison of two different recordings of the same extract) the ones that were best were those that were closest to what was written in the score. This, I have very frequently found, is so often true.

Ah, not so prescriptive from Dr Rae then - and indeed, often true. And my apologies also to the shade of Great Eric for giving him an "o" not an "a". How could I!?

The interest here (for me) was to see how evoking fidelity to the score to justify a critical opinion tends - when there is so much detail to choose from - to be selective. It can be a dangerous game - even if noticing the faster-than-marked tempo here it gave me a good clue as to why I (personally) had found this particular performance limited in appeal.

I'd never actually followed the CD with scores when it was in my possession, though I remember thinking that the Debussy came off best of the three sonatas. (I'm uber-fussy with Fauré!)

[Richard Barrett]

It seems that this thread has turned like so many others into a discussion of whether the markings in a score are a guide or a prescription.

... to name only two of the possibilities!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The interest here (for me) was to see how evoking fidelity to the score to justify a critical opinion tends - when there is so much detail to choose from - to be selective. It can be a dangerous game - even if noticing the faster-than-marked tempo here it gave me a good clue as to why I (personally) had found this particular performance limited in appeal.

You are quite right, I think, to say that in a score as rich in possibilities as this, it is impossible for any single performance to get communicate everything - there's always an abundance of things that have to wait for the next performance. But in a recording - a performance which stays the same (even if we listeners react differently to it each time) - it is essential (to me) that performers aim to get as much of the details of the score present. Again, for a work as generous in detail as this, no single recording will ever suffice - and it was perfectly appropriate for Dr Rae to recommend no fewer than five recordings of the work, each revealing different aspects of the score - and (because of the nature of the programme) choosing Pike/Roscoe as the one that, on this occasion came closest to what she believed had the most to offer from those many details. You have used the same criteria of comparing the resulting performance with the details of the score - and found that these help you to define/communicate what you found lacking in that performance; which I think is brilliant.

[BBMmk2]

Having now heard the winning performance of this work, I rather quite like it . Will definitely be buying. Martin Rosco will be mightily pleased!

[mikealdren]

You are quite right, I think, to say that in a score as rich in possibilities as this, it is impossible for any single performance to get communicate everything - there's always an abundance of things that have to wait for the next performance. But in a recording - a performance which stays the same (even if we listeners react differently to it each time) - it is essential (to me) that performers aim to get as much of the details of the score present. Again, for a work as generous in detail as this, no single recording will ever suffice - and it was perfectly appropriate for Dr Rae to recommend no fewer than five recordings of the work, each revealing different aspects of the score - and (because of the nature of the programme) choosing Pike/Roscoe as the one that, on this occasion came closest to what she believed had the most to offer from those many details. You have used the same criteria of comparing the resulting performance with the details of the score - and found that these help you to define/communicate what you found lacking in that performance; which I think is brilliant.

I fully agree. For me, one of the best aspects of Dr Rae's review was that, in addition to fidelity to the score, she put great value on the communication of the overall spirit of the work, something that is often difficult to demonstrate with excerpts in RR. In many works, it is this overall 'interpretation' that marks out the great performances rather than minor details.

[Barbirollians]

Having listened to the Chung/Lupu again this evening I find its omission even more baffling than before .

[BBMmk2]

Having listened to the Chung/Lupu again this evening I find its omission even more baffling than before .

That be a mammoth omission. Gawd!

[Bryn]

Having listened to the Chung/Lupu again this evening I find its omission even more baffling than before .

I have the 1980 CD version but am currently listening to a more recent release via QOBUZ, hoping it's a superior transfer,, not that the 1980 issue was that bad, but digital transfer technology has progressed rather a lot since 1980. However, I appears to be the old, not a new, transfer. A lost opportunity, what?

[richardfinegold]

Reportedly this set contains a newer remaster. Quobuz presumably is using the older issuehttp://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=1602695

[mikealdren]

I have the 'ADRM' version with the Sonata for Flute, Viola, and Harp and the Ravel Introduction and Allegro and it sounds pretty good, the performance is exceptional.

Sorry I don't seem to be able to upload a cover image, the website seems to think the file is invalid.

[Bryn]

I have the 'ADRM' version with the Sonata for Flute, Viola, and Harp and the Ravel Introduction and Allegro and it sounds pretty good, the performance is exceptional.

Sorry I don't seem to be able to upload a cover image, the website seems to think the file is invalid.

[mikealdren]

Yes that's the one.

Am I doing something wrong or do I have an issue with my PC, I saved the image from your message to my PC as a JPG file but I got the 'invalid file' message when I tried to attach it to this message