BaL 28.04.18 - Brahms: Symphony no. 1 in C minor

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  • jayne lee wilson
    Banned
    • Jul 2011
    • 10711

    Harnoncourt might strike you as surprisingly respectful in his Berlin Brahms set. Not just toward the score (so carefully observant in those intro dynamic subtleties - I often feel that you can get the measure of a whole Brahms 1st from this introduction alone) but to the decades-long Berlin Brahms tradition, and sound, as well. He deliberately chose the orchestra for that reason. Listening to the 4th last night, I was again struck by how very longterm his thinking is, within the movement or the symphony's architecture. Some might find earlier parts of say, the 1st movement too restrained (with strikingly non-legato phrasing in the 2nd group, but wonderfully clear horns against cellos) but the excitement mounts into the coda, and the finale has the continuous intensity and drama held back until then.

    As I implied, these are not the most consistently intense or dramatic readings; but very considered, searching; rewarding to live with and revisit.

    ***

    Compared to Furtwangler’s grandstanding, fist-shaking rhetorician, MENGELBERG (Amsterdam Concertgebouw, live in 1940, Pristine download) is the impulsive, impassioned poet; an assumption I found far more congenial, as I did his daringly wild or wide-ranging rubato (emphasising a wider expressive range than WF)… He can offer sweetness and intimacy too, very touchingly in the andante; but going with the flow as ever, produces great weight of string tone where passion dictates, (e.g.just after the andante start).
    Lovely wind solos (clarinets especially) here and in the grazioso too, lending the reading that classic Amsterdam freshness. (And how startlingly quick and clipped is the trio! We’re almost in HIPPs territory).


    The finale largamente is soon into a confident stride, the agitato very excitable (explosive at the movement’s crisis), but unusual pauses or hesitations here (and even in the coda!) may give a listener several pauses for thought. Plenty of swoops and slides to keep portamento-addicts happy.
    Almost inevitably, the great, crowning chorale is drawn out to spectacular (some might say outrageous) length, as is the final chord: with an ungainsayably thrilling result after an endlessly gripping, fascinating performance. The finale suffers a little from the engineering limitations of the time (occasionally pulled back a bit, not always as dynamic as you’d like), but is good in climaxes and always very listenable.

    Mengelberg’s very frequent rubato has at least the merit of being ‘logical' - i.e. emotionally apt, since he relaxes (often almost to a point of stasis) when the music does, and tightens or accelerates, pulse-racing, as the tension mounts. This could sound formulaic but for him, at least in this live performance, it seems entirely natural. I suppose rubato is as subjective in the response as in the application, and here, it finds a positive one in me.
    Pristine’s 2010 24/48 transfer (replayed as a natively-stored WAV download) of the 1940 Amsterdam concert is excellent, well above average for the time.
    Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 07-05-18, 02:48.

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    • silvestrione
      Full Member
      • Jan 2011
      • 1701

      Thanks Jayne. Mengelberg sounds intriguing, probably my sort of performance.

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      • jayne lee wilson
        Banned
        • Jul 2011
        • 10711

        Originally posted by silvestrione View Post
        Thanks Jayne. Mengelberg sounds intriguing, probably my sort of performance.
        I haven't done any comparisons, but the Pristine is probably the best sounding transfer or rather, restoration....

        overviewfb55cd020f0643f08418183279e63a5fBEETHOVEN Symphony No. 1BRAHMS Symphony No. 1Recorded live in 1940, AmsterdamTotal duration: 73:28Royal Concertgebouw Orchestraconductor Willem Mengelberg578a9379d1e540bd96d26f03a79628d9review_titlefb55cd020f0643f08418183279e63a5fFanfare Review578a9379d1e540bd96d26f03a79628d9revi


        I've just started to listen to the Helsingborg/Manze on CPO again off of CD, and it is even better than I remembered, musically outstanding and probably the best recorded-sound for the work I've heard yet. But - I can't find the IRR which carried Nigel Simeone's excellent, detailed and very positive review. Can anyone tell me which one it was?
        I think it would be 2012, possibly the Spring, but my IRRs are a bit scattered around the house....

        I recall him saying that this was a really true Brahmsian sound, and I can only concur...quite wonderful.

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        • Goon525
          Full Member
          • Feb 2014
          • 597

          Jayne
          How many times have you listened to Brahms 1 in say the last month?

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          • jayne lee wilson
            Banned
            • Jul 2011
            • 10711

            Originally posted by Goon525 View Post
            Jayne
            How many times have you listened to Brahms 1 in say the last month?
            Gosh, I couldn't say.... complete performances of.... Furtwangler/BPO, Mengelberg/RCOA, Norrington/SWR, Harnoncourt, Mackerras, Manze....in some cases twice, or excerpts twice over....
            Excerpts via Qobuz or CD of - Chailly, Furtwangler/VPO, Karajan/BPO (Tokyo live 1988).... I really have fallen in love with it again, thanks to Norrington, then Harnoncourt and so on; fascinated by the form of the finale too.... and it led me back to the Op. 51/1 String Quartet, and Op.25 Piano Quartet - I'd forgotten how utterly smitten I am by those too, icons of my inner world for many years.

            Has anyone found that IRR with Simeone's review of the Manze cycle yet, please? I still can't find it, in the loft or anywhere...
            but it must be here somewhere ...

            ***

            later that evening...

            I found it!
            IRR 4/2012, deep in a pile of mainly 2014 IRRs. Thank god they had boldly highlighted coverlines.
            And a excellent, insightful and observant read it is, as you'd expect.
            His actual words about the sound are: "CPO's recording is ideal: the sound is strong, clear and warm, just what the music needs."

            It is indeed, very inviting to the Brahmsian ear. I'll be playing more from this cycle very soon.
            Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 07-05-18, 18:38.

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            • Barbirollians
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 11671

              Very slightly off topic but re Szell's Brahms symphony recordings I was most taken with the coupling of 2 and 3 -1 struck me as good , pleased to have heard it but not sure I will listen to it again.

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              • richardfinegold
                Full Member
                • Sep 2012
                • 7656

                I thought that the First was the highlight of the series. For some reason, this set tends to inspire more respect than affection

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                • jayne lee wilson
                  Banned
                  • Jul 2011
                  • 10711

                  Have you heard the new Tapiola Sinfonietta/Venzago Brahms cycle yet Richard? On Sony and in 24/96, it includes gorgeous performances of both Serenades as well. (The 1st Symphony is a very unusual reading, but very exciting too). As profoundly beautiful and as lovable a set as it is radical, it's my Record of the Year to date....(I commented about it on the Listening ​thread)...
                  Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 10-07-18, 02:34.

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                  • BBMmk2
                    Late Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 20908

                    Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
                    Have you heard the new Tapiola Sinfonietta/Venzago Brahms cycle yet Richard? On Sony and in 24/96, it includes gorgeous performances of both Serenades as well. (The 1st Symphony is a very unusual reading, but very exciting too). As profoundly beautiful and as lovable a set as it is radical, it's my Record of the Year to date....(I commented about it on the Listening ​thread)...
                    They seem very good! I might indulge!
                    Don’t cry for me
                    I go where music was born

                    J S Bach 1685-1750

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                    • richardfinegold
                      Full Member
                      • Sep 2012
                      • 7656

                      Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
                      Have you heard the new Tapiola Sinfonietta/Venzago Brahms cycle yet Richard? On Sony and in 24/96, it includes gorgeous performances of both Serenades as well. (The 1st Symphony is a very unusual reading, but very exciting too). As profoundly beautiful and as lovable a set as it is radical, it's my Record of the Year to date....(I commented about it on the Listening ​thread)...
                      No, thank you, and I saw your earlier comments about it. I keep meaning to play the Manze cycle via the Oppo/Bryston combination but haven’t done it yet.

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                      • pastoralguy
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 7739

                        I wonder what fellow forum members will make of Daniel Barenboim's soon to be released set on DG. I keep hovering over the 'pre order' button but don't really need yet ANOTHER set of these works!

                        Who am I Kidding? Pay day is right around the corner...!

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                        • Barbirollians
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 11671

                          I have owned the Chailly set for a while but have only got round to playing them all recently . Excellent performances superbly recorded . I can see why they might be regarded as modern library versions.

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                          • Barbirollians
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 11671

                            Just six years and a new BAL in 2024

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