BaL 28.04.18 - Brahms: Symphony no. 1 in C minor

[Barbirollians]

I tried my (very patient) best with the BaL choice, the 1952 Titania-Palast Furtwangler Brahms 1st, but all too predictably, this impassioned, intense, grandly Romantic manner of performance isn't for me.... so I won't go on about it. (I read and understand RO's preferences for the VPO one, which I haven't heard (I don't think I could bear to now...) but he does remark that it is interpretatively similar).
Listening to Brahms played this way I think, well, I don't want to hear more Brahms just now...
With Mackerras or Norrington - just the opposite. Whatever the heart and the ear crave, is the path you follow....











So it goes... to be fair, I was never Furtwangler's greatest admirer, not even in Bruckner. Of that generation I incline much more to Knappertsbusch (often more lyrical - songlike, Schubertian - and organic in his approach) or Mengelberg; Toscanini too, but really only in Beethoven Symphonies.

***
I do have those Chailly Brahms Serenades, and in 24/96 too.... they are enjoyable though No.1 seems rather too brisk in places. My preference remains with SCO/Mackerras (which I would confidently recommend even to those who may be less sympathetic to his way with the Four Symphonies.). More warmly recorded than those, it is a truly lovely record.

I agree re the Mackerras recording of the Serenades albeit Kertesz probably remains my favourite of all .

[Nick Armstrong]

I agree re the Mackerras recording of the Serenades albeit Kertesz probably remains my favourite of all .

And mine, the Haitink/Concertgebouw, in preference to the Kertesz - but I must hear the Mackerras, which I don't know!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The 107 CD Furtwangler set is one of my most treasured possessions. It contains every work that WF recorded, though not every version. But the 1952 BPO Brahms 1 is there, presumably because the compiler of the set considered it to be the best one. Nevertheless, I'm keen to seek the VPO version that vies for attention. If it really is superior to the Berlin recording, it must be very fine indeed.

[Dave2002]

I listened to this BAL as a Podcast yesterday. I'm not sure that I can really say it was a poor BAL - the task of finding a really good version seems mammoth, and we perhap all have our favourite versions and prejudices. However, it didn't seem very well argued, if that's something others want to have. Hardly any comments on what Brahms wrote down, and how that translates into recorded performances - though there was one mention of a performance practice whcih Brahms apparently approved of of shortening violin notes - not sure exactly where in the work that was.

What was interesting was hearing a considerable diversity of different styles of performance, and that might rekindle my interest in hearing this work again. A few versions not mentioned - but it would be hard to mention them all - Jochum's version from the 1970s with the LPO recorded around the time of an amazing concert at the RFH, and the early James Levine recordings - though perhaps we're not allowed to discuss those now. Harnoncourt recorded the symphonies with the BPO which I have enjoyed.

What did come across for me was that the work itself has so many different aspects that there are almost endless permutations of ways in which it could be performed, though how many are appropriate if factors such as adherence to instrumentation, performing styles and the score was not really an issue for the reviewer, although there was mention and approval of the first movement repeat, for example in Chailly's version.

I should now try to hear Furtwängler's versions, though whether I'd want to hear them often I'm not sure. Here I might have a similar issue to his Beethoven 9 recordings, which I think are amazing, but even so I hardly ever listen to them. Everyone should hear them at least once - though that of course is just my opinion. I may I have Norrington's SWR version hidden in some odd recess round here as I picked up several of his newer recordings fairly recently.

I am interested in some of the other recordings mentioned by others here, such as those by Mackerras - which I really don't know at all.

[vinteuil]

The 107 CD Furtwangler set is one of my most treasured possessions. It contains every work that WF recorded, though not every version. But the 1952 BPO Brahms 1 is there, presumably because the compiler of the set considered it to be the best one. Nevertheless, I'm keen to seek the VPO version that vies for attention. If it really is superior to the Berlin recording, it must be very fine indeed.

... go on, you know it's worth it -

http://amzn.eu/dTjK702

.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... go on, you know it's worth it -

http://amzn.eu/dTjK702

.

I'll look into this, though the details are a little unclear

[vinteuil]

I'll look into this, though the details are a little unclear

... I have this - is there any info you wd like from the liner notes?


.

[BBMmk2]

And mine, the Haitink/Concertgebouw, in preference to the Kertesz - but I must hear the Mackerras, which I don't know!

A friend of mine has recommended the Mackerras set. on Telarc I see. On Amazon I see , the full set £60!! CDs separately at around £7 per CD.

[silvestrione]

The 107 CD Furtwangler set is one of my most treasured possessions. It contains every work that WF recorded, though not every version. But the 1952 BPO Brahms 1 is there, presumably because the compiler of the set considered it to be the best one. Nevertheless, I'm keen to seek the VPO version that vies for attention. If it really is superior to the Berlin recording, it must be very fine indeed.

Must be a bit of interest, because it's gone up slightly in price. But still says there are 4 available, even though I've just bought one, arrived this morning!

[Barbirollians]

I'll look into this, though the details are a little unclear

It is a great set - but don't play them all at once they are emotionally exhausting !

1 is the VPO account from 27.1.52

2 a live BPO account from Munich on 7.5.52

3 a live BPO account from Titania Palast on 8.12.49

4 a live BPO account again from TP on 24.10.48

[jayne lee wilson]

The 107 CD Furtwangler set is one of my most treasured possessions. It contains every work that WF recorded, though not every version. But the 1952 BPO Brahms 1 is there, presumably because the compiler of the set considered it to be the best one. Nevertheless, I'm keen to seek the VPO version that vies for attention. If it really is superior to the Berlin recording, it must be very fine indeed.

You have Gramophone? (either print or virtual...?)
For close consideration of Furtwangler's approach and comparison of the VPO and BPO 1952 recordings by Richard Osborne, see 3/85 and 6/86. Very detailed, insightful, and beautifully written as ever.

***

Staying with the Berlin Philharmonic, listening to the 1997 Teldec CD of the Brahms 1 with Nikolaus Harnoncourt (rec, 1996, live sans applause) , I felt that this could easily have been a BaL winner on any other day. In very well-balanced, warm and dynamic sound (better than average from the Philharmonie, a recording venue I'm not very fond of) this reading is meticulously observed, Harnoncourt evidently thinking - and feeling - through every phrase, yet with his special gift for retaining spontaneity and drama.
So the outer movements are moderately paced (both 17'+, with 1st movement repeat), with great precision, weight and momentum. The intro is neither too slow nor overloud, which draws out the contrast between its regular pulse and the choppier, craggier rhythms of the main allegro. Very sweet through the lyrical countersubject and clear-headedly dramatic into the main climaxes, never too intense too soon; this is the first movement after all. The middle movements are sweetly voiced, rather intimate and restrained, but the allegretto builds to an unexpectedly powerful climax, presaging the finale.

Again, tonally beautiful but expressively restrained in the largamente, carefully built to its crucial climax where the development (which often feels more like a varied exposition to me) crashes into the returning horn-theme, Harnoncourt creates great excitement into the coda, brass prominent but never overbearing, climactic chorale in tempo.
The wonderful judging of tempo, dynamics, drama; restrained yet expressively phrased lyrical sections, the lovely playing from the orchestra; the many low-level contrapuntal details which keep catching your ear, in the brass especially; the vivid dialoguing across the divided string sections, make this a very balanced and insightful reading which would seem to me a perfect one to live with, to learn from and to love. Well recorded too, I realised while listening that I was beginning to love the work again, having felt I was past ever doing so. A treat to hear this orchestra too, which I don't often find myself pulling off the shelves nowadays.

[BBMmk2]

That WF box set, has it that famous Beethoven 9th?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

That WF box set, has it that famous Beethoven 9th?

Yes.

[jayne lee wilson]

More Brahms, anyone?
Might add something about the live 1940 Amsterdam Mengelberg 1st later.... ve-ry interesting.....

[silvestrione]

More Brahms, anyone?
Might add something about the live 1940 Amsterdam Mengelberg 1st later.... ve-ry interesting.....

Yes, please. But Harnoncourt? I have kept no recordings by him, because I find him fussy and most unspontaneous. Nor, not to put too fine a point on it, does the concept 'symphonic sweep' seem of much interest to him. But I know I'm in a minority, his Eroica was chosen, I think, in a BAL, and even RO likes the Brahms.

My first listen to VPO Furtwangler led to a slight sense of anti-climax. It was less intense and urgent, less of a 'sweep you up' experience than I was expecting. The horns are rather diffident, the clarinet also. The coda just did not match the two versions referred to below. But I must give it another go!

But, putting my cards on the table, I'd just listened, a few days ago, to the Karajan BPO 1987, much like the Testament live version, though a littl less draining, but glorious, in my view. The slow movement seemed all one statement (through its alternating strings and winds), while the third movement, apart from its trio, seemed to exist in a timeless place of grace and charm. The brass chorale, on the DG sound stage, thrilling.