BaL 24.03 18 - Debussy: Preludes Book 1

[Bergonzi]

Surely that is what the punched rolls effectively were/are.

Yes, I have to agree, providing the playback piano(la)? was in good shape. Not as convenient as a CD though and probably not capable of up to 80 minutes!

[ardcarp]

The rhythmic argument in La Cathedrale sorted then?

Did I hear Andrew interject that the submerged bells could only (according to myth) be heard when the sea was calm? Have I been labouring under the delusion all these years that a rough sea tolled the bells?

[vinteuil]

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... yep, you need calm sea to hear the bells of Ys.


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[ardcarp]

OK. So is the climax in the middle of La Cathedrale a clangourous tintinabulation or not?

Full mrks for translating that into French!

[Bryn]

If you (plural) are looking for the Thibaudet on CD, try https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/35209983226...8850892&crdt=0 , if you are quick enough.

I already have the set (sans promotional interview) twice over (saw the second set* in a charity shop for £1.99 and could not resist), so am not in the market myself.

There is also this set, which looks even more attractive.

* That's a second set of the Preludes, not Volume 2 of Thibaudet's Debussy complete solo piano music, which I also have, though only one copy this time.

[gradus]

What an impossible task for the reviewer but carried out with Mr Burnside's characteristic charm and expertise. My word aren't these wonderful pieces.

[verismissimo]

What an impossible task for the reviewer but carried out with Mr Burnside's characteristic charm and expertise. My word aren't these wonderful pieces.

All of the above, Signor Gradus.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

My word aren't these wonderful pieces.

[Bryn]

What an impossible task for the reviewer but carried out with Mr Burnside's characteristic charm and expertise. My word aren't these wonderful pieces.

Interesting that DG opted for Aimard, rather than Thibaudet for their [in]Complete Debussy box. That despite including other works as recorded for Decca by Thibaudet. I have yet to listen to all the Aimard Prèludes.

[cloughie]

Interesting that DG opted for Aimard, rather than Thibaudet for their [in]Complete Debussy box. That despite including other works as recorded for Decca by Thibaudet. I have yet to listen to all the Aimard Prèludes.

I think both the DG and Warner boxes mixed and matched a bit - inevitable duplications for me in both boxes but I managed new to me sets of Preludes from Aimard and Egorov.

[rauschwerk]

I was particularly interested to hear what they had to say about the "controversy" surrounding "La Cathedrale Engloutie" (basically, the musicologist Roy Howat decided (decreed?) that Debussy made a bungle and wrote minims when he meant to write crotchets. This of a composer who is often held up as a model of meticulous notation! So now we have a situation where pianists either play what Debussy wrote, or play what Howat claims Debussy meant to write, and the astonishing thing is that at present, Howat's view seems to prevail.)

I was amazed that Iain Burnside just dismissed the whole thing as a fait accompli: Debussy got it wrong, Howat got it right, and any pre-Howat performances are essentially obsolete.

Let's just say that, for me, the argument is not as cut-and-dried: I totally disagree with Howat, and I'm horrified that so many pianists have swallowed his views hook, line and sinker. The biggie for the Howat camp is that there's a piano roll of Debussy playing the piece, in which he seems to support Howat's view of things. But the process of going from performance to piano roll wasn't anything like that of going from performance to vinyl or CD: the roll resulting from the performance had to be manually deciphered by a third party, so that there were multiple opportunities for errors to occur, and for the final piano roll not to match the original performance.

A few years ago, I tried the experiment of playing the big tune in fortissimo octave chords (comes in at the bottom of page 2) in a way which seemed appropriate - big, majestic and stately, like a chorale - and measuring the tempo at which I was playing it. It came out as crotchet=94. I then played the whole piece as Debussy wrote it, and sticking (fairly) rigidly to that tempo (except in the middle section, where the tempo increases a bit.) It was a revelation - I found that the piece just came into focus in a way that I'd not previously experienced. It's not easy at that tempo - but who said that Debussy wrote it to be easy? In particular, the section at the top of page 2 is very demanding to play at that tempo - but at that speed, the impression is vividly like a tremendous outburst of pealing cathedral bells. If anyone on here plays the piece, and feels up to trying the experiment themselves, I'd be very interested to hear how it goes!

I have played the piece in the way you do ever since I performed it at the Suffolk Music Festival, when the adjudicator was none other than Fanny Waterman. She was delighted with my playing, so naturally I decided that my interpretation was convincing. At that time I had heard about Debussy's piano roll but not actually heard it, so I doubled the tempo only for bars 6-13.

One thing I don't understand. It was apparently required of even distinguished composers that they play through pieces at Durand's before publication. Ravel (with Enescu) had to do this with his violin sonata, for example. If Debussy had to do this, why didn't his publisher apparently not spot the notational error?

[BBMmk2]

I usually rather like the work of Aimard. No matter what he does.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I have played the piece in the way you do ever since I performed it at the Suffolk Music Festival, when the adjudicator was none other than Fanny Waterman. She was delighted with my playing, so naturally I decided that my interpretation was convincing. At that time I had heard about Debussy's piano roll but not actually heard it, so I doubled the tempo only for bars 6-13.

One thing I don't understand. It was apparently required of even distinguished composers that they play through pieces at Durand's before publication. Ravel (with Enescu) had to do this with his violin sonata, for example. If Debussy had to do this, why didn't his publisher apparently not spot the notational error?

It isn't necessarily an error. Composers sometimes change their minds and say, "Wouldn't it be better if I played it this way?"

[rauschwerk]

It isn't necessarily an error. Composers sometimes change their minds and say, "Wouldn't it be better if I played it this way?"

I guess so. And wealthy composers (RVW springs to mind) could always pay to have revised editions published!

[silvestrione]

Though I love Michelangeli's benchmark performance of the Ravel piano concerto, I think Iain Burneside was right here: "too mannered".

Yes it's a while since I'd listened to the DG recording, which, while magnificent in the Danseuses and Ce qu'a vu vent, is rather tiresome in some of the other Preludes. I much prefer his live version, from the Vatican in April 1977, which I have on the Aura label. Here there IS as much spontaneity as you ever get from Michelangeli, and lots of colour and invention, and somehow you are on the edge of your seat to see what happens next. No good though if you are allergic to slightly de-synchronised hands!