BaL 12.10.19 - Mozart: Serenade no. 10 in B flat “Gran Partita” K361

[gurnemanz]

He ALWAYS has to chip in. WHY???

I second that and even sympathise with the capital letters and triple question marks which are generally not my thing.

1 The main reviewer has listened to all the recordings under consideration, so chipping in from someone who has has presumably not is of limited relevance.
2 The main reviewer has presumably planned a coherent route through the review, so nudging along the way should not be necessary.
3 I have always seen this as an essay in which one person presents a personal view, so it is superfluous to have someone else chipping in with a twopennyworth.
4 I find the dialogue (chat) format actually interrupts the natural flow, detracts from the cogency of points being made and wastes time.

[Goon525]

I second that and even sympathise with the capital letters and triple question marks which are generally not my thing.

1 The main reviewer has listened to all the recordings under consideration, so chipping in from someone who has has presumably not is of limited relevance.
2 The main reviewer has presumably planned a coherent route through the review, so nudging along the way should not be necessary.
3 I have always seen this as an essay in which one person presents a personal view, so it is superfluous to have someone else chipping in with a twopennyworth.
4 I find the dialogue (chat) format actually interrupts the natural flow, detracts from the cogency of points being made and wastes time.

I don’t disagree with your argument, just that it wasn’t as bad this week as it often is.
SD spoke briefly about each of the original instrument performances, gave a reason in each case for their dismissal- I think mostly that they dated from the 80s when techniques with the old instruments were imperfect- and played only the Zefira, which made her long list. Yes, she was pretty quick about it, but she did give her reasons.

[Goon525]

Oh, and one last word about the recording quality of the winner which Dave doesn’t like. RW, in his G review I referred to above, describes it as ‘beautifully judged'. I think on the whole I’d avoid making judgements on recording quality based on listening on an iPad!

[Master Jacques]

Having listened to this BaL with delay, I had mixed feelings. Working musicians like SD (though usually better than celebrity ones in this spot) too often focus on technical trees as opposed to the interpretative wood. They are listening in a very specialised way.

And I too - like ferneyhoughgeliebte would question her ready dismissal of the historically-informed performances, which seemed to me to put personal prejudice before a professional reviewer's even-handedness. The Hogwood disc, for example, is a beautiful example of record-making as well as a specially satisfying performance on its own terms: the sense of pioneering - overcoming the technical difficulties of playing the instruments - is part of the pleasure, not a limitation. Only a rival player would be bothered negatively by that sort of thing.

[ardcarp]

What on earth was her excuse for making such a claim? [that only one period instrument version was worth considering]!

As I understood it, she felt that the earlier pioneers of 'authentic' instruments were still struggling with their technique and that it is only more recently that players have mastered them. This is surely true?

However she would have been able to explore period instrument versions had there been more time allotted to today's BAL:.

PS Edit. Just realised that post #92 said the same. Apologies.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

SD spoke briefly about each of the original instrument performances, gave a reason in each case for their dismissal- I think mostly that they dated from the 80s when techniques with the old instruments were imperfect

If this was, indeed, her ... for want of a better word ... "reason", then she was talking ... for want of a better word ... total rubbish.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

As I understood it, she felt that the earlier pioneers of 'authentic' instruments were still struggling with their technique and that it is only more recently that players have mastered them. This is surely true?

No, it isn't.

[doversoul1]

the earlier pioneers of 'authentic' instruments were still struggling with their technique and that it is only more recently that players have mastered them. This is surely true?

That very much depends on what ‘more recently’ refers to. 1989?

Seriously, the late Alan Curtis said that current generation of players grew up listening to and playing period/authentic instruments and he died in 2015.

[Dave2002]

Oh, and one last word about the recording quality of the winner which Dave doesn’t like. RW, in his G review I referred to above, describes it as ‘beautifully judged'. I think on the whole I’d avoid making judgements on recording quality based on listening on an iPad!

Stop misquoting me. I didn't say I didn't like it - just noticed the reverberation.

As a modern instrument version it did indeed sound rather fine.

Re the iPad, it's what I happened to have to hand. I'm sure I'm not the only one not to listen via £££s worth of kit at breakfast time. In fact I have been surprised at how much I can hear detail using said tablet device - but not down at the bass end where a string instrument battles it out with a wind instrument.

If I don't like a recording via the iPad, I'm not sure I could be bothered to listen again on more expensive kit. The opposite is more likely to happen here, with the Berlin winds - which I may now seek out.

[BBMmk2]

Did she gloss over a London Winds, Michael Collins.

I don’t suppose the President’s Own US Marine Corps Band didn’t even get a mention.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

No, it isn't.

At least it isn't in the case of this particular work - whilst it might be true that some "early pioneers" (from the '50s & '60s?) may have "struggled" to get the instruments to "speak", by the time of the HIPP recordings of the Gran Partita (dating from the 1980s - the era of the Academy of Ancient Music, the Orchestra of the Age of the Enlightenment, the Orchestra of the 18th Century, Hausmusik, the Orchestra of the Champs-Èlysées, Le Petit Band, the London Classical players, etc etc etc) this simply wasn't true. If Ms Devonald is correctly reported as believing that the performers on HIPP recordings since the 1980s were not in full control of their technique, then I would dearly, dearly love to hear her pointing out the deficiencies of players such as Antony Pay, Alan Hacker, Anthony Halstead, Michel Piguet, etc etc ...

[Goon525]

Stop misquoting me. I didn't say I didn't like it - just noticed the reverberation.

As a modern instrument version it did indeed sound rather fine.

Re the iPad, it's what I happened to have to hand. I'm sure I'm not the only one not to listen via £££s worth of kit at breakfast time. In fact I have been surprised at how much I can hear detail using said tablet device - but not down at the bass end where a string instrument battles it out with a wind instrument.

If I don't like a recording via the iPad, I'm not sure I could be bothered to listen again on more expensive kit. The opposite is more likely to happen here, with the Berlin winds - which I may now seek out.

Am I really seriously misquoting you? You said: “The Berlin recording has a very obvious echo which shows up even on my iPad.” I don’t think it’s unfair to suggest you didn’t like the recording quality. In fact, it has no such echo, just an acceptable and agreeable degree of reverberation. But I blame your iPad, not you!

[jayne lee wilson]

At least it isn't in the case of this particular work - whilst it might be true that some "early pioneers" (from the '50s & '60s?) may have "struggled" to get the instruments to "speak", by the time of the HIPP recordings of the Gran Partita (dating from the 1980s - the era of the Academy of Ancient Music, the Orchestra of the Age of the Enlightenment, the Orchestra of the 18th Century, Hausmusik, the Orchestra of the Champs-Èlysées, Le Petit Band, the London Classical players, etc etc etc) this simply wasn't true. If Ms Devonald is correctly reported as believing that the performers on HIPP recordings since the 1980s were not in full control of their technique, then I would dearly, dearly love to hear her pointing out the deficiencies of players such as Antony Pay, Alan Hacker, Anthony Halstead, Michel Piguet, etc etc ...

Absolutely. How disappointing to find a BaL reviewer dismissive or cursory of HIPPs (not for the first time...). Critics of all people need to continuously update their knowledge and awareness....

Winner playing now.... sounds fine but doesn't truly inspire me... a shade generalised in the modern instrument manner...? (Period instruments often seem to encourage greater individuality and spontaneity and offer wonderful colour & texture).... BPW here are noticeably reverberant, but quite pleasantly so... would be good to know the venue....anyone?

[kuligin]

Qobuz says it’s the Jesus Christ’s Kirche Dahlem Berlin, sounds good to me re reverberation.

[jayne lee wilson]

Qobuz says it’s the Jesus Christ’s Kirche Dahlem Berlin, sounds good to me re reverberation.

D'you have a link please? I can't see the booklet/note on the page I used...