BaL 12.10.19 - Mozart: Serenade no. 10 in B flat “Gran Partita” K361

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes, quite so! The score indicates 'pizzicato' in several places... if anybody knows a contrabassoon player who can play pizzicato I will happily invite said player to participate, as and when appropriate and available.

Perhps a particularly aggressive tonguing technique? Spitsicato?

[LeMartinPecheur]

Perhps a particularly aggressive tonguing technique? Spitsicato?

Sounds like the torments of the 'hero' in Verdi's Falstaff!

[Tony Halstead]

Perhps a particularly aggressive tonguing technique? Spitsicato?

Lovely!

[MickyD]

In the past I liked Klemperer's version, which can be found in a box set of 8 CDs for around £16 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Symp...1&sr=8-1-fkmr1
* Also available to stream for Prime members.

However, at the time I also liked the version with Jack Brymer - with the London Wind Soloists - which seemed to me to have more life. This is in the Decca Analogue years box, and also available as a rather pricey CD - https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=mozart+...ref=nb_sb_noss - but used copies are available relatively cheaply.

The complete serenades from the London Wind Soloists otherwise only seem to be available as downloads, which is a pity.

I may pick up on the Hogwood version with the Amadeus Winds mentioned above - which sounds as though it might reach places which earlier recordings can't reach and at a very reasonable price. Indeed - I think I'll do that now. I might add in Bruggen's recording too, which is available cheaply as a used CD.

Maybe these encouragements are having an effect on availability - the Hogwood version seems to have gone temporarily out of stock in the last few minutes!

This review of a few versions by Stanley Sadie is quite interesting - https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/...nd-serenades-2 He suggests that the Klemperer version was starting to "sound its age", and not really to be a front runner now. I checked this out as I wanted to know whether wind or string bass was used in the recording - it seems that the answer is "both"! Presumably they don't play at the same time when pizz is marked - or do they?

I should have the BBC MM version somewhere - must dig it out. Sounds as though it could be the best of the bunch.

Another advantage of the excellent Hogwood version is that it is a twofer and coupled with some other divertimenti.

[Opinionated Knowall]

OAE/Halstead arrived: SO GOOD!

Surprised and delighted to find this on the shelf. Wonderful, uplifting performance! Such poetic oboe playing (Tony Robson?) and underpinned by magnificent bass playing (Chi-chi?) Interested to know whether Tony directed this from the horn, or conducted it...I have a pet theory which this might support or contradict!

[Dave2002]

The programme today seemed to avoid any ensembles which might be called “period groups”. I did like the Berlin recommendation, and there was discussion of other groups and musicians I’d not heard of. The Berlin recording has a very obvious echo which shows up even on my iPad. OTOH distinctions between double bass and contra bassoon are totally lost by anyone listening on such”low tech” gear. All that nodding “agreement” - “You can really hear the difference between ...” in the two-fer format is completely lost. Probably anyone listening on a really good set up would be able to hear the differences, but surely many people don’t do that having just got up, and maybe not even had breakfast yet!

No mention of the pizz marking in the bass part discussed earlier. Is that in the manuscript - are we sure?

A quick (OT) afterthought though - the new Brahms 3rd symphony recording sounds really good. Even on my iPad.

[Goon525]

Actually I thought this was one of the better twofers, level headed and with a sensible outcome - see Richard Wigmore's rave review for the winner in Gramophone if you don’t agree! And there was a section dedicated to the period instrument versions, with SD explaining why she thought only one was worth considering, which made it to her longer short list. And there’s no hint of an echo on the winning Berlin version listened to on a high end system.

[Dave2002]

I must have blinked re the period instrument offerings. Surprised that you can’t hear the “ambience” on your high end system. Is the BBC tinkering with the streams? Some of the recordings were clearly done with much closer microphones, so it is possible to tell the differences. Perhaps you assumed I meant an echo repeat, whereas I was referring to something which sounded like reflected sound - reverberation. A definite lingering on notes from the recorded sound.

I agree that as a twofer it wasn’t as problematic than some, and I did say that I liked the final recommendation, though.

[ardcarp]

Actually I thought this was one of the better twofers, level headed and with a sensible outcome - see Richard Wigmore's rave review for the winner in Gramophone if you don’t agree! And there was a section dedicated to the period instrument versions, with SD explaining why she thought only one was worth considering, which made it to her longer short list. And there’s no hint of an echo on the winning Berlin version listened to on a high end system.

I agree. Sarah D. was refreshingly 'down to earth' in her approach, and Andrew didn't impede things too much. What a contrast to last week! I'm just sorry that so short a time-span was allotted to a 7-mov't work. Also sorry that the Marriner version didn't get a spin. The change in oboe tone between, say, 1950 and 1970 always amazes me. The first half of the 20th century produced a very reedy sound indeed. Then embouchure changed and now it's more mellow and blending. Almost a different instrument. I don't think any other orchestral instrument has metamorphosed in that way...with the possible exception of the clarinet, which in the past allowed itself a tiny amount of vibrato and which now is invariably played 'straight'.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Before we get carried away with the adulation, let's not forget that AMcG "corrected" the real reviewer, when she commented on the fine EMI transfer of the Furtwangler recording. He took the opportunity to say it was Naxos nowadays. Unnecessary, pompous and misleading. It's available on Warner, Music & Arts and Naxos.

[Goon525]

I’m listening to the winner, courtesy of Qobuz, and although the recording is maybe a touch more reverberant than some, I’d say it’s entirely within normal bounds, and I find it quite attractive. Indeed, more sense of a real acoustic than with some of the versions played.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

No mention of the pizz marking in the bass part discussed earlier. Is that in the manuscript - are we sure?

Yes, and yes.

https://www.loc.gov/resource/ihas.200033470.0/?sp=66

Some useful articles on the work here (the first ome os particularly useful):

http://www.lifesci.sussex.ac.uk/home/Chris_Darwin/WebProgNotes/pdfs/MozartGranPartita.pdf

https://www.windrep.org/Serenade_No_10_in_Bb_%22Gran_Partita%22

[Guest]

<< The change in oboe tone between, say, 1950 and 1970 always amazes me. >>

And IIRC was not noticed / mentioned?

A better deal because reviewer is a pro player, knew her stuff and 'God' seems to have been warned off a bit.

But it's still so much 'subject reporting to King' with news from his subjects, but clearly a King who has been secretly briefed beforehand by backstairs sources. He ALWAYS has to chip in. WHY???

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... there was a section dedicated to the period instrument versions, with SD explaining why she thought only one was worth considering

What on earth was her excuse for making such a claim?!

[Guest]

What on earth was her excuse for making such a claim?!

Yes, yes...........a bit gobsmacked by the hand brushing the rest off the table into the refuse bin in one throwaway shrug, as it were . Blimey!
BUT
in her defence, there was a big list and AMcG to get through.