BaL 10.03.18 - Britten: Piano Concerto Op. 13

[HighlandDougie]

A shocker of a BAL - I missed the very end

In which case you missed Ms Jeal's reasons for her choice. She said (I paraphrase), "Get both if you can afford them/have room for two versions- you ought to have Richter but, if forced to choose one, it would be Osborne". I've had the Richter since it appeared on LP - and the Osborne since the CD came out - and I think that she was right. I don't think that she was bullied by AMcG - nor do I agree that there is any, "current editorial preference for a modern version". That implies that the reviewers are being pressurised in relation to their choice(s), for which there is no evidence whatsoever. The one BaL reviewer whom I know, when I spoke to him about how he went about his task, was absolutely clear that the responsibility for the ultimate choice was his and his alone.

[Barbirollians]

In which case you missed Ms Jeal's reasons for her choice. She said (I paraphrase), "Get both if you can afford them/have room for two versions- you ought to have Richter but, if forced to choose one, it would be Osborne". I've had the Richter since it appeared on LP - and the Osborne since the CD came out - and I think that she was right. I don't think that she was bullied by AMcG - nor do I agree that there is any, "current editorial preference for a modern version". That implies that the reviewers are being pressurised in relation to their choice(s), for which there is no evidence whatsoever. The one BaL reviewer whom I know, when I spoke to him about how he went about his task, was absolutely clear that the responsibility for the ultimate choice was his and his alone.

It is not unknown for a reviewer to surprise you with a winner but if that is how she ended her BAL it somewhat came out of left field. Further AMcG did seem to my ears to more than once be pressing the claims of the Osborne. I don't think there is any question of bullying.

I am afraid I do not agree about there being a lack of preference for modern versions. On a number of occasions reviewers pronounce the winner as their overall choice due to is modern recording and this is compared to good 1960s/70s stereo. Moreover, that preference can also be advanced by the choice of the reviewer.

The most obvious example of McGregor pushing his view occurred when he appeared to change Jeremy Summerly's choice of the Schubert E Flat Mass from Sawallisch's Philips to his EMI recording at the very last moment.

[BBMmk2]

So has Mr Volkov, who was Principal conductor of the BBCScottish SO between 2003 - 2009 - and whose splendid work was known to New Music enthusiasts some years before that.

He's made quite a few recordings, but my especial favourites are his two discs of works by Stravinsky on HYPERION (including the Piano Concertante works with Osbourn). There are also some discs that were BBC Music Magazine cover discs - again, some superb Stravinsky (two Symphonies and Song of the Nightingale, the complete Firebird) but also Britten's War Requiem, Debussy, Mendelssohn, Schubert, Haydn, Brahms, Schubert, Haydn.

Checking Amazon, I see that there's also a Janacek CD that I had overlooked.

I'm thinking about buying the Steven Osborne, the one that was recommended. As said I have the Shelley, which she also likedb but I do have a penchant for what Ed Gardner has done. I also like Osborne!

[HighlandDougie]

It is not unknown for a reviewer to surprise you with a winner but if that is how she ended her BAL it somewhat came out of left field. Further AMcG did seem to my ears to more than once be pressing the claims of the Osborne. I don't think there is any question of bullying.

I am afraid I do not agree about there being a lack of preference for modern versions. On a number of occasions reviewers pronounce the winner as their overall choice due to is modern recording and this is compared to good 1960s/70s stereo. Moreover, that preference can also be advanced by the choice of the reviewer.

The most obvious example of McGregor pushing his view occurred when he appeared to change Jeremy Summerly's choice of the Schubert E Flat Mass from Sawallisch's Philips to his EMI recording at the very last moment.

Given the general incoherence arising out of Andrew McGregor talking over Erica Jeal, I may have misinterpreted the cues which I thought that she, not AMcG, was giving in favour of Steven Osborne over Howard Shelley et al (in that context Richter was really hors concours). And, apologies, not "bullying", but I didn't get the impression that he was pushing Osborne in particular. But I probably picked it all up wrongly.

Your phrase, "current editorial preference", says to me that you are suggesting that there is a preference on the part of the editorial team (AMcG plus, presumably, the producer) which is being used to influence the reviewer. Maybe I have misunderstood you but I don't think that there is any evidence for that. I think that such a view does a disservice to the BaL reviewers. We might not agree with them but the responsibility for their recommendations lies with them alone. If recording quality is an important factor in making a recommendation, that is made clear. One can always ignore them.

As to AMcG, I don't think that the Schubert E Flat Mass discussion, which I remember as not being much better than that this morning, presents convincing evidence of AMcG pushing his view when I seem to recall that there was a degree of dithering on Jeremy Summerly's part - and what I might describe as fairly light-hearted joshing by AMcG.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Your phrase, "current editorial preference", says to me that you are suggesting that there is a preference on the part of the editorial team (AMcG plus, presumably, the producer) which is being used to influence the reviewer. Maybe I have misunderstood you but I don't think that there is any evidence for that.

Not so long ago, I recall the reviewer selecting a recording, the details on which were announced. Then AMcG said that a different recording would be played in the BaL winner slot on the following day (or maybe Monday). That raised a few eyebrows here.

I think that such a view does a disservice to the BaL reviewers.

I suspect the reviewers are blameless, but it could be a reflection on R3 management.

[HighlandDougie]

Not so long ago, I recall the reviewer selecting a recording, the details on which were announced. Then AMcG said that a different recording would be played in the BaL winner slot on the following day (or maybe Monday). That raised a few eyebrows here.



I suspect the reviewers are blameless, but it could be a reflection on R3 management.

I've forgotten which BaL it was* - but I do remember that it did seem a bit rum at the time. But, just as one swallow doesn't make a summer, one example like that hardly constitutes prima facie evidence of editorial sway on BaL reviewers.

* Stephen Johnson on Beethoven's op 127 - when he seemed to recommend the Busch Quartet as his overall top choice (historic) which morphed into the (top choice - modern) Belcea Quartet when played the next morning or the Monday. At least both recommendations are included on the Radio 3 website:

Building a Library: Beethoven's String Quartet No 12, Op. 127
Recommended recording (historic / mono): Busch Quartet
Adolf Busch & The Busch Quartet: The Complete Warner Recordings
Warner 2564601931 (16CD)

Recommended recording (modern / stereo): Belcea Quartet
Beethoven: String Quartets Nos. 1-16
ALPHA 262 (8CD)

[MickyD]

Is Erica Jeal fluffing her words because she's intimidated by the interruptions of AMcG, or is it due to the anxiety factor of it being a live broadcast from freethinkingatsagegatehead?

I am pretty sure it was the latter - to my ears, she sounds as if she is enjoying the exchange with AMcG, but at times she does sound very distracted and nervous....there is quite a bit of background noise from passers-by, so maybe they were putting her off.

Personally I cannot see the point of doing a serious, in-depth review like this in such a location - what advantages are there, apart from the coffee and cake on offer for those who are there?

[Bergonzi]

I am pretty sure it was the latter - to my ears, she sounds as if she is enjoying the exchange with AMcG, but at times she does sound very distracted and nervous....there is quite a bit of background noise from passers-by, so maybe they were putting her off.

Personally I cannot see the point of doing a serious, in-depth review like this in such a location - what advantages are there, apart from the coffee and cake on offer for those who are there?

It's a trend with the BBC (and others) to record or broadcast live, in the noisiest locations they can find. It's all part of "getting it into real life and being popular with the public." And using their latest extravagant and expensive new buildings.

[DracoM]

Erm........get it right...'pop-up studio'. Lese Majeste and that..............

[richardfinegold]

I don't get this!? How's it on Sony? It's a Decca/London release.

Regarding car sound systems, best try before you buy. My friend has just bought a brand spanking new fully loaded Audi A7 and the sound system is not a patch on my Japanese jam-jar's system.

As much as I care about Music, the Audio system will always be the last consideration in buying a car. However, it would be nice to have one of those Mark Levinson systems that go in the top end Beemers

[silvestrione]

I am at home now, and yes, the Richter/Britten version is part of the big Sony/ RCA collection. I am paying my son to burn all my CDs to an HD and this box was added last week. I am listening to theFireWire input on my DAC from the Mac Air and what a difference between the MP3 version in the car! I had written off I and II as only moderately interesting but there is a host of low level detail on display here that is fundamental to appreciation, imo. Well, it’s a new car, and I just learned how 3rd rate the sound system is. Glad to know the piece!

It's certainly not part of MY Sony/RCA box! Are you sure about that?

[gradus]

Delighted that the wonderful Mr Osborne came out on top.

[richardfinegold]

It's certainly not part of MY Sony/RCA box! Are you sure about that?

I think I figured this out. As I check the box I don’t see it listed either. However, I earlier had burned the Decca Richter box (borrowed from a colleague who is a Richter Fanatic) to the same HD.
In general, the iTunes organizer keeps these two collections in 2 separate places on the album list on the iPad. I wonder if the Richter/Britten disc escaped it’s little digital confines somehow and joined it’s friends in Sony Land?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I think I figured this out. As I check the box I don’t see it listed either. However, I earlier had burned the Decca Richter box (borrowed from a colleague who is a Richter Fanatic) to the same HD.

Isn't that what they call piracy?

[Barbirollians]

I've forgotten which BaL it was* - but I do remember that it did seem a bit rum at the time. But, just as one swallow doesn't make a summer, one example like that hardly constitutes prima facie evidence of editorial sway on BaL reviewers.

* Stephen Johnson on Beethoven's op 127 - when he seemed to recommend the Busch Quartet as his overall top choice (historic) which morphed into the (top choice - modern) Belcea Quartet when played the next morning or the Monday. At least both recommendations are included on the Radio 3 website:

Building a Library: Beethoven's String Quartet No 12, Op. 127
Recommended recording (historic / mono): Busch Quartet
Adolf Busch & The Busch Quartet: The Complete Warner Recordings
Warner 2564601931 (16CD)

Recommended recording (modern / stereo): Belcea Quartet
Beethoven: String Quartets Nos. 1-16
ALPHA 262 (8CD)

Well that sounds rather like current editorial preference !

Whilst I don't doubt that the reviewer has the choice I do wonder about their terms of reference .