BaL 3.03.18 - Mahler: Symphony no. 7

[Alison]

From my all too fallible memory, I thought that was the LSO. And that after the performance the management rushed to assure the orchestra he had conducted his last concert with them. (I'm happy to delete this post if there is an authoritative correction down thread).

It was with the BBCSO as pointed out by HD #237.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't know anyone who agrees with me but my favorite Mahler 6 is Karajan/BPO. .

Oh, yes you do.

[Barbirollians]

And in that respect The Berlin Philharmonic has never been my favourite Mahler orchestra, regardless of conductor.

Difficult to explain: you just don’t get that sort of fresh, occasionally fragile, out of doors sound!

Too much saturated fat? It’s all my problem I know.

There was freshness with Barbirolli in 1964 in the Ninth. I think he was due to record more Mahler with them in 1971.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I remember seeing a DVD, I think taken from a British TV broadcast, of LB attempting to rehearse the Enigma with an Orchestra that was up in arms and not shy about letting him know.

An excerpt here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-Zfhk22-_M

... the players don't come out of the encounter very well.

There's also this, earlier (and a change of shirt) from the same rehearsals :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmSqKBPuQ0

Bizarre that the BBCSO should go to such efforts to get Bernstein to work with them, only for them to want to play the Music as if it was Vernon Handley on the podium.

[Bergonzi]

There was freshness with Barbirolli in 1964 in the Ninth. I think he was due to record more Mahler with them in 1971.

Yes, that is a fine interpretation and excellent playing.

[HighlandDougie]

And in that respect The Berlin Philharmonic has never been my favourite Mahler orchestra, regardless of conductor.

Difficult to explain: you just don’t get that sort of fresh, occasionally fragile, out of doors sound!

Too much saturated fat? It’s all my problem I know.

Listening to the Concertgebouw in this symphony (the just-acquired Kirill Kondrashin - thanks, Petrushka, for the steer), I think that I know what Alison means. It might be down to the acoustic of the respective concert halls of the BPO (the Philharmonie can be a bit challenging for recording engineers - Barbirolli was of course recorded in the Jesus-Christus-Kirche) and the RCO (none better) - and it may be down to the RCO's very long experience of performing Mahler (I think I remember reading that the BPO was unfamiliar with the 9th when Barbirolli went to perform and record it with them) but I instinctively think of the RCO (and the VPO) rather than the BPO as great Mahler orchestras.

[richardfinegold]

Listening to the Concertgebouw in this symphony (the just-acquired Kirill Kondrashin - thanks, Petrushka, for the steer), I think that I know what Alison means. It might be down to the acoustic of the respective concert halls of the BPO (the Philharmonie can be a bit challenging for recording engineers - Barbirolli was of course recorded in the Jesus-Christus-Kirche) and the RCO (none better) - and it may be down to the RCO's very long experience of performing Mahler (I think I remember reading that the BPO was unfamiliar with the 9th when Barbirolli went to perform and record it with them) but I instinctively think of the RCO (and the VPO) rather than the BPO as great Mahler orchestras.

I have a recording that Pristine Audio released of Horenstein leading the BPO in Mahler 5 from the Edinburgh Festival in 1961. Apparently per the liner notes the Conductor and Orchestra quarreled quite a bit and it was the first time the Orchestra had played the piece, and as noted previously, when Barbirolli made his recording of 9 they had very little experience with that either. Did Karajan conduct others besides 4,5,6, and 9?

[Bergonzi]

I have a recording that Pristine Audio released of Horenstein leading the BPO in Mahler 5 from the Edinburgh Festival in 1961. Apparently per the liner notes the Conductor and Orchestra quarreled quite a bit

I'm not surprised with Horenstein conducting. He was not that much liked by orchestras. Fine musician though, just difficult, and complained about players to the management.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Did Karajan conduct others besides 4,5,6, and 9?

Das Lied (and Kindertoten- and Ruckert-lieder).

Given that many of my favourite recordings of Mahler involve the BPO, I don't at all feel the (?slight?) antipathy to the orchestra in this repertoire - the association goes back to the composer himself (pre-dating the Concertgebeouw's association with the Music) and whilst German orchestras avoided the Music during the Third Reich (as did the VPO after the Anschluss - and the Concertgebeouw during the Nazi occupation) this is one of the finest assemblages of Musical performers - within a few years, they had mastered the idiom and produced some of the greatest performances of this still-astonishing Music.

An idle pondering: with its association first with Mahler, then Walter, then Bernstein - is the NYPO the orchestra with the longest, unbroken connection with Mahler's Music?

[HighlandDougie]

An idle pondering: with its association first with Mahler, then Walter, then Bernstein - is the NYPO the orchestra with the longest, unbroken connection with Mahler's Music?

Thanks to consultation of their exemplary online archive (https://archives.nyphil.org/), I suspect that the answer to that question is, "yes". Apart from a short hiatus following Mahler's death in 1911, the NYPO has consistently programmed his music ever since. Strarem, Mengelberg, Walter, Barbirolli, Rodzinski, Mitropoulos, Steinberg et al ..... through to Bernstein and the modern day.

[BBMmk2]

Thanks to consultation of their exemplary online archive (https://archives.nyphil.org/), I suspect that the answer to that question is, "yes". Apart from a short hiatus following Mahler's death in 1911, the NYPO has consistently programmed his music ever since. Strarem, Mengelberg, Walter, Barbirolli, Rodzinski, Mitropoulos, Steinberg et al ..... through to Bernstein and the modern day.

Artur Rodzinsdki is a name we don't hear much about nowadays, although in his day, he was very popular.

[richardfinegold]

Artur Rodzinsdki is a name we don't hear much about nowadays, although in his day, he was very popular.

Not so much with Musicians—he used to bring a pistol to rehearsals.

[BBMmk2]

Not so much with Musicians—he used to bring a pistol to rehearsals.

[Once Was 4]

Does anybody remember the late 60s/early 70s when there was only one recording of Mahler 7 available? (I believe that the same was true of Mahlers 3 and 6 although I may be wrong). Apologies if I have missed this performance in previous posts but it was by the Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra and on one of the smaller labels (Saga?) It was something of a cult among horn players in the Manchester area as it appeared to be a live performance and the 1st horn (from the rest of the recording obviously a superb player) managed to split three notes in a row at the start of the 2nd movement. I remember one of the Halle horns at the time saying that, if he had a bad show, he went home, put that record on and felt much better.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If you wish to relive the experience (and have a hundred dollars you don't know what to do with) you can still get a copy:

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Berlin-Radio-Orchestra-Kleinert/dp/B076DLMTJR

... dating from 1961, it says. (Though, by "late '60s/early '70s" you could also get Bernstein, Kubelik, Abravanel, and Solti ... so one could avoid the Horn splits if one wanted to )