BaL 3.03.18 - Mahler: Symphony no. 7

[BBMmk2]

I’m a fan of Bernstein and I think his later reco showed that experience he has had with them. I will even go far as to say that they are better than his earlier NYPO days.

[Barbirollians]

Although I did not have time to find reviews of the later 6 - the rest of the DG cycle was very favourably reviewed . Not only by Edward Seckerson in respect of 1,3 and 5 but RO in respect of 4(evidently has much less trouble with the boy treble than me ) and Michael Kennedy in respect of 2 and 7. MK did not like the Cgebouw 9 though.

PS Going mad of course Bernstein died before he could re-record the Eighth.

[richardfinegold]

I'm not that much of a Bernstein fan but (I was thinking of this in connection with Solti): in the 1960s and 1970s, if a conductor wanted to perform Mahler that was because they really wanted to perform Mahler. In the 21st century every conductor performs Mahler because he's such a popular composer and it's expected of them. I'm sure some of them still do it with the zeal and commitment that Bernstein, Solti, Haitink and Kubelík, to say nothing of their predecessors, had to have. But probably quite a few of them don't. I'm inclined to cut Bernstein some slack. By the time he made his DG recordings he had lived with that music for longer than most other living conductors at the time. His recorded interpretations at least deserve to be taken seriously as the view of someone whose involvement in that music was so deep-seated. They shouldn't be written off as self-indulgent.

When Tennstedt released his first recordings here, a Mahler Symphony Cycle, I remember a critic commenting that surely Mahler’s time has come, when unknown Conductors can begin their careers with his music. With the profusion of Mahler recordings now it wouldn’t raise an eyebrow

[Barbirollians]

I have never really got on with Tennstedt as a conductor . I long thought I did not like Mahler 3 as I was introduced to it by his studio recording and I really did not like that live Pastoral that was raved about a couple of years back.

I think the only recordings of his I have otherwise are accompanying Lucia Popp in the Four Last Songs and KWC in Beethoven and Bruch1 .

What recording would forumites recommend to those they were seeking to convert to KT.

[HighlandDougie]

It was my good fortune to have attended both of the Bernstein London performances of Mahler 5 and 9 given in 1985 RCO (the 9th) and 1987 VPO (the 5th). Both of them were amongst the greatest concert hall experiences of my life. If I ever get to hear anything a quarter as great again I will be very lucky indeed.

Staying O/T (sorry!) but, thanks to the kindness of a fellow-forumista, I've just been listening to an off-air recording of the celebrated 10 September 1997 Proms performance of the 5th. While I am no great fan of later Bernstein Mahler, I should be eating my words, in view of this performance, in which Bernstein seems to have found an inspiration that's not quite present to the same extent in the DG Frankfurt Alte Oper recording of a few days before. Maybe it was the Prommers - or being in the RAH - but there is a electricity to the occasion/performance which makes me overlook LB's occasional liberties with tempi (his Mahler is sui generis in any case). The quality of the VPO's playing would be enough to make one forgive all of his excesses (not that many really - he doesn't drag out the Adagietto, for instance). I envy Petrushka being there - I would have been speechless/walking on air/transmigrated afterwards - that feeling one gets when one has experienced something musically quite exceptional. The 5th and the 7th are difficult symphonies to bring off convincingly (and I am definitely not smitten by LB's later NYPO 7th) but this performance is one which I will be very happy to return to alongside Kondrashin, Haitink, Roth et al.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I have never really got on with Tennstedt as a conductor . I long thought I did not like Mahler 3 as I was introduced to it by his studio recording and I really did not like that live Pastoral that was raved about a couple of years back.
I think the only recordings of his I have otherwise are accompanying Lucia Popp in the Four Last Songs and KWC in Beethoven and Bruch1 .
What recording would forumites recommend to those they were seeking to convert to KT.

If you've sampled Tennstedt's Live Mahler #2, #6, or #8 and they haven't floated your boat, Barbs, then he's probably never going to appeal to you. They're available on the LPO's own label. Tennstedt's studio recordings don't greatly impress me - functional, careful, a bit dull - but these recordings of Live concerts (genuine, too, I think - no "patching" from rehearsals or grafting of different performances) are breath-taking. (The opening of the Second might appear a little slow on first hearing - but I found my attention quickly accommodated what KT was achieving, and it just seemed entirely right within a couple of minutes or less.)

[Barbirollians]

Staying O/T (sorry!) but, thanks to the kindness of a fellow-forumista, I've just been listening to an off-air recording of the celebrated 10 September 1997 Proms performance of the 5th. While I am no great fan of later Bernstein Mahler, I should be eating my words, in view of this performance, in which Bernstein seems to have found an inspiration that's not quite present to the same extent in the DG Frankfurt Alte Oper recording of a few days before. Maybe it was the Prommers - or being in the RAH - but there is a electricity to the occasion/performance which makes me overlook LB's occasional liberties with tempi (his Mahler is sui generis in any case). The quality of the VPO's playing would be enough to make one forgive all of his excesses (not that many really - he doesn't drag out the Adagietto, for instance). I envy Petrushka being there - I would have been speechless/walking on air/transmigrated afterwards - that feeling one gets when one has experienced something musically quite exceptional. The 5th and the 7th are difficult symphonies to bring off convincingly (and I am definitely not smitten by LB's later NYPO 7th) but this performance is one which I will be very happy to return to alongside Kondrashin, Haitink, Roth et al.

Lucky you HD - I was walking on air just having listened to it broadcast.

[Barbirollians]

If you've sampled Tennstedt's Live Mahler #2, #6, or #8 and they haven't floated your boat, Barbs, then he's probably never going to appeal to you. They're available on the LPO's own label. Tennstedt's studio recordings don't greatly impress me - functional, careful, a bit dull - but these recordings of Live concerts (genuine, too, I think - no "patching" from rehearsals or grafting of different performances) are breath-taking. (The opening of the Second might appear a little slow on first hearing - but I found my attention quickly accommodated what KT was achieving, and it just seemed entirely right within a couple of minutes or less.)

Thanks - I think I will skip I have far too many Mahler recordings already !

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

far too many Mahler recordings

Does Not Compute!
Does Not Compute!
Does Not Compute!
Does Not Compute!

[mahlerei]

What recording would forumites recommend to those they were seeking to convert to KT.

Barbs

As much as I admire KT - his Mahler was a key part of my introduction to this composer - there are only two of his GM recordings I'd want on my desert island:

Symphony No. 1
Rec. RFH, 28 January 1990
BBC LEGENDS BBCL4266-2

and

Symphony No. 3
Rec. RFH, 5 October 1986
Includes John Amis interview from a year later
ICA CLASSICS ICAC5033

Alas, I do not share others' enthusiasm for his live Mahler 2 or Beethoven 6 :(

edit: just saw your msg 218. Ignore the above.

[Nick Armstrong]

Lots of learned and thoughtful posts to enjoy on here.

Am I alone in finding nothing ironic or threatening or disturbing or unsettling or whatever it is supposed to be in the last movement? A bit manic at times perhaps, and in some performances. It comes across to me as mostly exuberant and high-spirited. Surely it's a response to Wagner, where the Mastersingers and other groups parade in, and some do formal dances? In the Mahler, there's a lot more of the mastersinger-pomposity, and wilder exuberance from the populace! Celebratory, anyway.

The night-pieces and scherzo could also be related back to the opera, perhaps (no doubt have been by commentators?), as the rhythm of that music drama goes from night (with dark episodes, serenades, and unsettling moments) to day. Not the first movement, though...

You're not alone - I agree. I also sometimes think that No 7 also sounds like Mahler self-parodying and providing a grotesque pastiche of his own No 5 - Mahler's 5th Through The Looking Glass.

Very interesting to hear SJ's information that Mahler tried also to programme No. 7 with the Mastersingers Prelude (substantiated above by Petrushka).

I felt slightly short-changed by this BAL, and the narrow band of performances considered, but that's probably because I've lived with the piece for getting on 40 years and so this programme wasn't aimed at me. Omitting Gielen/BPO live seems remiss in the extreme though.

Having loved the Abbado Chicago since it came out, I've never heard the Berlin recording - I shall avail myself of Qobuz to listen to it. I did like the phantasmagorical cacophony of the bells at towards the end!!

It was my good fortune to have attended both of the Bernstein London performances of Mahler 5 and 9 given in 1985 RCO (the 9th) and 1987 VPO (the 5th). Both of them were amongst the greatest concert hall experiences of my life. If I ever get to hear anything a quarter as great again I will be very lucky indeed. The alleged slowness of the 9th was not particularly apparent in the hall which only goes to show how very different listening to a recording can often be.

I was at both those performances too, and quite agree with you Pet. As those above who heard the broadcast say, we were very lucky!

[Bergonzi]

What about Emil Tabakov's 7th with the Sofia Philharmonic Orchestra!(1996)

[Bryn]

What about Emil Tabakov's 7th with the Sofia Philharmonic Orchestra!(1996)

The tenor horn at the start does not inspire confidence, but I'l give it a go.

Actually, it also seems a bit pedestrian, so far.

[Richard Barrett]

What recording would forumites recommend to those they were seeking to convert to KT.

His Lied von der Erde without hesitation (with Klaus König and Agnes Baltsa who inhabit their "roles" completely IMO).

[Bryn]

His Lied von der Erde without hesitation (with Klaus König and Agnes Baltsa who inhabit their "roles" completely IMO).

Can anyone here remind me why it was EMI sat on that recording of around 8 years before releasing it.