BaL 3.03.18 - Mahler: Symphony no. 7

[Richard Barrett]

I thought the Philips engineers were much more successful with VG's first LSO Prokofiev cycle

That's the one I was referring to, I like those recordings a lot. Recording an orchestra in the 21st century isn't such a difficult thing - I wonder how (and why) the LSO Live engineers manage to get it so wrong.

[Barbirollians]

That's the one I was referring to, I like those recordings a lot. Recording an orchestra in the 21st century isn't such a difficult thing - I wonder how (and why) the LSO Live engineers manage to get it so wrong.

The Barbican ?

[Richard Barrett]

The Barbican ?

I don't think that's the problem. One of my orchestral pieces was premiered there by the BBCSO and recorded for R3 and the recorded balance is absolutely fine and natural-sounding.

[Barbirollians]

Might the weight of Mahler's orchestration make that more difficult to capture in the Barbican ?

[Richard Barrett]

Might the weight of Mahler's orchestration make that more difficult to capture in the Barbican ?

Again the aforementioned experience would indicate to me that this isn't the problem, besides which Mahler's orchestration is in the 7th a model of clarity and transparency, however complex it sometimes gets. I think the LSO Live recording (and others as Mahlerei points out) sounds that way as a result of deliberate choices. I would hazard a guess that, since most of the orchestral music most people hear is in film soundtracks, where the sound is pumped up without regard to what a real orchestra sounds like, the engineers have decided to take the sound in that direction, hence the highlighted percussion etc. Maybe not. But it's no more difficult to record in the Barbican than many other places. The acoustic of the RAH for example is far more problematic, yet BBC engineers manage to make concerts there sound like a real orchestra in a (different!) real space.

[BBMmk2]

Again the aforementioned experience would indicate to me that this isn't the problem, besides which Mahler's orchestration is in the 7th a model of clarity and transparency, however complex it sometimes gets. I think the LSO Live recording (and others as Mahlerei points out) sounds that way as a result of deliberate choices. I would hazard a guess that, since most of the orchestral music most people hear is in film soundtracks, where the sound is pumped up without regard to what a real orchestra sounds like, the engineers have decided to take the sound in that direction, hence the highlighted percussion etc. Maybe not. But it's no more difficult to record in the Barbican than many other places. The acoustic of the RAH for example is far more problematic, yet BBC engineers manage to make concerts there sound like a real orchestra in a (different!) real space.

Concur with you there RB! Also the LSO livestream engineers didn't do to bad a job of Bychkov's M2.

[Barbirollians]

Again the aforementioned experience would indicate to me that this isn't the problem, besides which Mahler's orchestration is in the 7th a model of clarity and transparency, however complex it sometimes gets. I think the LSO Live recording (and others as Mahlerei points out) sounds that way as a result of deliberate choices. I would hazard a guess that, since most of the orchestral music most people hear is in film soundtracks, where the sound is pumped up without regard to what a real orchestra sounds like, the engineers have decided to take the sound in that direction, hence the highlighted percussion etc. Maybe not. But it's no more difficult to record in the Barbican than many other places. The acoustic of the RAH for example is far more problematic, yet BBC engineers manage to make concerts there sound like a real orchestra in a (different!) real space.

It isn't noticeable to my ears in most of the Colin Davis LSO recordings I own such as his Berlioz, Sibelius and Elgar recordings.

[duncan]

You'll find that Gergiev is slated for political reasons rather than anything else.

Gergiev shone in repertoire that didn't require much rehersal or that he and the performers already had at their fingertips. The Mariinsky Opera in Russian operas for example.

In other repertoire, performances were unremarkable at best in my view. I include all the Mahler cycle I heard in this category. I can't remember which performances I attended but stopped going around 2009. I try to put his politics aside (not easy) but found it harder to ignore the apparent contempt for the punters by repeatedly presenting un(der)rehearsed concerts. The Ring Cycle at the ROH was possibly the nadir (eye-wateringly expensive and a shambles on stage at times) and I don't think I've seen him conduct since.

[HighlandDougie]

Reading this month's Diapason review of the Concertgebouw/Jansons (whom I will now forever think of as Yawnsons, thanks to Richard F), which is more enthusiastic than Ed Seckerson, rightly praising the quality of the playing and the recording but finding it in toto just a touch underwhelming, the reviewer mentions Dudamel, a performance which I have never heard. Anyone got any views? It seems to polarise opinion with, e.g., Andrew Clements being sniffy about it (usually a sign of something being quite good) but others being very enthusiastic.

As to Gergiev, the former Chief Executive of the ROH once told me that, as Gergiev was rehearsing Otello(??) with the full cast/orchestra, his mobile rang. Gergiev answered the phone, left the rehearsal and simply didn't come back, much to the bemusement of the assembled company, who, when they had sent out a search party, were told that he had left the building, possibly for Heathrow. Tony H's sigh at the end of the anecdote said it all. His Prokofiev cycle with the LSO, heard at the Edinburgh Festival, was, though, a highlight for me in my years of concert-going.

[Petrushka]

Does anyone else have the live 1979 Concertgebouw/Kondrashin disc? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-Ko...70_&dpSrc=srch

It's a thrilling performance and one of the fastest on disc at 72 minutes (including applause). One gets the advantage of the vintage Concertgebouw sound too.

Klemperer takes 100 minutes to get through the exact same music but is still valid in his own way.

[Bryn]

Does anyone else have the live 1979 Concertgebouw/Kondrashin disc? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-Ko...70_&dpSrc=srch

It's a thrilling performance and one of the fastest on disc at 72 minutes (including applause). One gets the advantage of the vintage Concertgebouw sound too.

Klemperer takes 100 minutes to get through the exact same music but is still valid in his own way.

[verismissimo]

Nobody for Kubelik and his Bavarians any more? His/their Mahler always seems naturally right to me! The 7th is from 1971.

[visualnickmos]

Nobody for Kubelik and his Bavarians any more? His/their Mahler always seems naturally right to me! The 7th is from 1971.

I've always quite liked the 4th symphony from this set... which as you allude to, is strangely absent from mentions in this thread!

[verismissimo]

I've always quite liked the 4th symphony from this set... which as you allude to, is strangely absent from mentions in this thread!

Yes. Especially Elsie Morison (Kubelik's wife), so sadly neglected by the recording companies.

[HighlandDougie]

Nobody for Kubelik and his Bavarians any more? His/their Mahler always seems naturally right to me! The 7th is from 1971.

I've always really enjoyed this performance since buying the LPs a long time ago (and last year invested in an SHM-CD of it to remind me why). Given the paucity of recordings of this symphony until the 1970s (Rosbaud, Bernstein, Abravanel, Klemperer, Haitink), Kubelik in 1971 was a relatively early entrant into the fray. But, given the plethora of subsequent releases (including a live Kubelik/Bavarian RSO 7th from Audite) which are both better played and better recorded, I cannot see this being a BaL choice. But I would be very happy to have to eat my words.