BaL 3.03.18 - Mahler: Symphony no. 7

[HighlandDougie]

Well now I have some perspective for your Mahler tastes, HD. If those are your feelings towards Bernstein’s Mahler, now I understand your preference for Yawnsons Homogenized Pablum.
Well, I guess that we recording collectors can be fortunate that there is a Mahler Conductor out there to suit every taste, and that Mahler’s music can withstand such a variety of interpretive approaches

No, not NYPO 1960s LB, but, as I said, later Bernstein, as in VPO and DG NYPO where I can't help thinking that it's more about Bernstein and rather less about Mahler. But I realise that I am no doubt in a minority. Pace your well-rehearsed views on Mariss Jansons - or Yawnsons if you must - I have no particular axe to grind in his favour - but I do actually wonder if you have actually heard the recent Concertgebouw 7th? With apologies to Alison, is "symphonic heft" what Mahler had in mind for this symphony? Whatever, à chacun son goût.

[Alison]

Just listened to the Jansons, it’s beautifully played - acknowledged by ES - but lacking in symphonic heft to my ears.

The best performances can leave me feeling pretty shattered by the end of the first movement but this is a shade easy going.

Secko singles out the timpanist for underplaying his big moment at the start of the finale; again a tad harsh as I have certainly heard a lot worse. The Chicago player for Abbado is a lot woolier for one.

I find David Gutman a more perceptive Mahler reviewer responsive to a wider set of approaches - even though at heart he is a Bernstein man too.

[visualnickmos]

Very much looking forward to this BaL!

It really is going to be a marathon - totally open field, I reckon....

There are nowadays shedloads of Mahler recordings 'out there' - not just the 7th, and the task of choosing one for the library is bound to be (partly) subjective. How can it be otherwise?

[Beef Oven!]

Very much looking forward to this BaL!

It really is going to be a marathon - totally open field, I reckon....

There are nowadays shedloads of Mahler recordings 'out there' - not just the 7th, and the task of choosing one for the library is bound to be (partly) subjective. How can it be otherwise?

egg wetter gree

I wonder what the audience figures are. Clearly on this forum it's a popular programme - but are we representative?

[visualnickmos]

egg wetter gree

I wonder what the audience figures are. Clearly on this forum it's a popular programme - but are we representative?

Probably not, of the wider BBC Radio 3 audience , but within this set-up, quite possibly.....

In the last say, 10 - 15 years, I have the impression that Mahler is now one of the most-recorded composers.... not bad considering the near-obscurity that he was once languishing in, a generation or so, ago.

[Beef Oven!]

Probably not, of the wider BBC Radio 3 audience , but within this set-up, quite possibly.....

In the last say, 10 - 15 years, I have the impression that Mahler is now one of the most-recorded composers.... not bad considering the near-obscurity that he was once languishing in, a generation or so, ago.

Yes, but I think Mahler turned the corner in the 80s, not the last 10-15 years. Tempus fugit!

[Barbirollians]

Just listened to the Jansons, it’s beautifully played - acknowledged by ES - but lacking in symphonic heft to my ears.

The best performances can leave me feeling pretty shattered by the end of the first movement but this is a shade easy going.

Secko singles out the timpanist for underplaying his big moment at the start of the finale; again a tad harsh as I have certainly heard a lot worse. The Chicago player for Abbado is a lot woolier for one.

I find David Gutman a more perceptive Mahler reviewer responsive to a wider set of approaches - even though at heart he is a Bernstein man too.

Lenny's DG recording for me though I agree with the warm regard which many have for the Chicago Abbado. The Halle/BBC Northern Barbirolli on Barbirolli Society is wonderful too as Rob Cowan pointed out in replay last year.

[jayne lee wilson]

No, not NYPO 1960s LB, but, as I said, later Bernstein, as in VPO and DG NYPO where I can't help thinking that it's more about Bernstein and rather less about Mahler. But I realise that I am no doubt in a minority. Pace your well-rehearsed views on Mariss Jansons - or Yawnsons if you must - I have no particular axe to grind in his favour - but I do actually wonder if you have actually heard the recent Concertgebouw 7th? With apologies to Alison, is "symphonic heft" what Mahler had in mind for this symphony? Whatever, à chacun son goût.

With you on Bernstein, all the way - I dislike much of his later Mahler (that large, heavy, luxurious black & white box became one of my most regretted aquisitions...), but a few years ago that NYPO 1960s 7th would have been top of the list for me, especially - well, because of, really - the DSD boxset remaster. Now (off-the-top-of & purely from memory) I'd join you in admiring the Zender (which I discovered in the CPO 17-disc Radio Saarbrucken Zender box) and simply have to mention that Kondrashin again...

[mahlerei]

FWIW, I just do not recognise Ed's characterisation of Jansons' new Mahler 7. Yes, such criticisms can - and do - apply to his Bavarian account, recorded a few years earlier, but not to his RCO one. I'm not a Jansons fan - I never really cared for his Tchaikovsky symphonies, with the exception of No. 2 - but for years I've listened to and/or reviewed his new recordings in the faint hope that he will surprise me at some point. And he's done just that.

I always approach a concert or recording with the attitude: Go on, convince me. As much as I may have imprinted on earlier performances, I try not to impose a template on a given piece, difficult as that may be. Hence, I was bowled over by Ivan Fischer's recent M3 - I've not warmed to others in his cycle, with the exception of No. 4 - and I was utterly convinced by F-X Roth's quirky, bit refreshing M5. I really feel both bring something new and tasty to the groaning table; they certainly pleased my jaded palate!

Now, I am a Bernstein devotee, and will sing his praises at every turn. However, he's as much a sinner as a saint, and his Mahler is no exception. I would agree - vigorously - that his Sony survey is very special, but, alas, his DG is not. Indeed, I would only want the First and Fifth from the latter cycle, as I find the rest wayward and self-indulgent in the extreme. As HD so rightly says, the performances are too much about Bernstein and not enough about the music. Unlike ES, I'm not blinded to Lenny's many shortcomings, nor am I so set against Jansons as not to give him credit where it's due. Now I must heed HD's advice and try the A. Fischer and Hans Zander.

Should be an interesting BaL, though; I just hope Ed isn't the one entrusted with it...

[Alison]

No, it’s Stephen Johnson.

(He’s in my good books after a rave review of the Haitink Bruckner 6!)

[visualnickmos]

Yes, but I think Mahler turned the corner in the 80s, not the last 10-15 years. Tempus fugit!

Very true.... and yes, I agree - it was indeed, the 80s. In fact it was the early 80s when I attended my first Mahler concert at the RFH - the 'Resurrection' with Sinopoli. That was the concert that moved me more than any other.

[BBMmk2]

FWIW, I just do not recognise Ed's characterisation of Jansons' new Mahler 7. Yes, such criticisms can - and do - apply to his Bavarian account, recorded a few years earlier, but not to his RCO one. I'm not a Jansons fan - I never really cared for his Tchaikovsky symphonies, with the exception of No. 2 - but for years I've listened to and/or reviewed his new recordings in the faint hope that he will surprise me at some point. And he's done just that.

I always approach a concert or recording with the attitude: Go on, convince me. As much as I may have imprinted on earlier performances, I try not to impose a template on a given piece, difficult as that may be. Hence, I was bowled over by Ivan Fischer's recent M3 - I've not warmed to others in his cycle, with the exception of No. 4 - and I was utterly convinced by F-X Roth's quirky, bit refreshing M5. I really feel both bring something new and tasty to the groaning table; they certainly pleased my jaded palate!

Now, I am a Bernstein devotee, and will sing his praises at every turn. However, he's as much a sinner as a saint, and his Mahler is no exception. I would agree - vigorously - that his Sony survey is very special, but, alas, his DG is not. Indeed, I would only want the First and Fifth from the latter cycle, as I find the rest wayward and self-indulgent in the extreme. As HD so rightly says, the performances are too much about Bernstein and not enough about the music. Unlike ES, I'm not blinded to Lenny's many shortcomings, nor am I so set against Jansons as not to give him credit where it's due. Now I must heed HD's advice and try the A. Fischer and Hans Zander.

Should be an interesting BaL, though; I just hope Ed isn't the one entrusted with it...

Strange how different people perceive an artist. I have always been a fan of Jansons, ever since my first recording of his the Tchaik Symphonies(no less!). Did you see my review on WAYLtNIII post?

[verismissimo]

Yes, but I think Mahler turned the corner in the 80s, not the last 10-15 years. Tempus fugit!

Mahler turned the corner in the 60s. I remember it well! :)

[mahlerei]

Mahler turned the corner in the 60s. I remember it well! :)

Indeed he did.

[mahlerei]

Strange how different people perceive an artist. I have always been a fan of Jansons, ever since my first recording of his the Tchaik Symphonies(no less!). Did you see my review on WAYLtNIII post?

Morning Bbm

Nippy down here in Kent, but there's a bir of sun at least.

Yes, we really do react to given artists in very different ways....

Can you give me a post number or link, please?

Best D