BaL 30.12.17 - Mozart: Symphony no. 38 in D, K.504 "Prague"

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

( It's a question of balance, proportion and scale, not of "familiarity" - after all, Beethoven's Eroica would still take the "longest Symphonic movement to date" if he had included a second-half repeat.
There's more going on here than that throw-away sentence suggested. )

That's a very good point.





Director: Mozart, do you have that new symphony for is yet? It's just that it's coming up to Christmas, and we're performing early in the new year.

Mozart: It's my finest symphony yet. In fact it's probably the finest symphony yet written, but I've been a bit pressed with other works.

Director: I understand. How far have you got with it?

Mozart: Nearly three movements so far. And I haven't even started the Menuetto.

Director: That's worrying. If the rest of the work is that good, it would be a pity to do a bodged job.

Mozart: Well, I have had another idea.

Director: Go on ...

Mozart: Years ago, I wrote shorter symphonies without a minuet. I could do the same again.

Director: Wouldn't that make it a bit short?

Mozart: Short? Not really. My early symphonies were much shorter. But I'll tell you what: I could fill out what I've got by doing what I did in those early symphonies. Just this once, I could add second half repeat to the first movement. I don't normally do this, but if we're pressed for time, it could be the answer. And I am rather proud of this movement.

Director: What about the planned minuet?

Mozart: Yes; that's a pity. It would have been the best one yet written, but I'll finish the movements I'm working on, with that extra repeat, and if there's time, I might yet manage to put that minuet on paper...

[Karafan]

I don't know the Kripps - something I should have rectified yonks ago: his recordings of Figaro and Don G enfeeble all superlatives.

I adore his Don G, but wasn’t aware he’d recorded Figaro...? Erich Kleiber’s great reading puts me in mind of Krips’ style, though....

[Nick Armstrong]

Shan't be listening to this - did Krips get a mention? A tenner says not...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I adore his Don G, but wasn’t aware he’d recorded Figaro...? Erich Kleiber’s great reading puts me in mind of Krips’ style, though....

Ah! Yes - well done, Wilson: I was wondering who'd be the first to spot that one ...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Shan't be listening to this - did Krips get a mention? A tenner says not...

If anyone had taken you up on this, you'd be a tenner better off. (Nor did Bernstein, Abbado, Klemperer, Maag ... the programme would've needed an hour just to mention all the versions available - so TS stuck with the ones that displayed the greatest differences of approach. And with his helium-gabble-ous speed of delivery, he did manage to include a great many points. It was extremely good in an often annoying and gushing way.

But Alison summed it up best when she said that the real winner is Mozart - or, perhaps, the Symphony itself: every glorious repetition in it!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Shan't be listening to this - did Krips get a mention? A tenner says not...

Aw, go on. I'm sure you want to hear Mr Know-all doing his analysis of the music, including singing snippets, rather than doing what it says on the tin.

When he does get to the point, there are some quite interesting comparisons.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I wasn't impressed by the winner, though no-one ever thinks as me as a Norrington fan. I much preferred what I heard of his LCP performance.

I would prefer either of the runners-up: Jacobs and LPO/Beecham. However, Beecham's later RPO recording wasn't mentioned, yet it's equally good and is in much better (still mono) sound.

[Nick Armstrong]

Aw, go on.

You are the Mrs Doyle of the Forum, EA...

I'm sure you want to hear Mr Know-all doing his analysis of the music, including singing snippets, rather than doing what it says on the tin.

When he does get to the point, there are some quite interesting comparisons.

I'm afraid that's not enough to overcome the annoyance of listening to Service these days. I find him literally intolerable.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

You are the Mrs Doyle of the Forum, EA...

I'm afraid that's not enough to overcome the annoyance of listening to Service these days. I find him literally intolerable.

He had it all today, apart from talking over the music. Singing snippets, breathless misplaced punctuation, OT references to the work's analysis, supercilious remarks about "the old school", assuming his opinions were facts... Is that enough?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

He had it all today, apart from talking over the music. Singing snippets, breathless misplaced punctuation, OT references to the work's analysis, supercilious remarks about "the old school", assuming his opinions were facts... Is that enough?

Indeed - who does he think he is? David Owen Norris?!

[vinteuil]

.

... very much enjoyed this BaL, and much appreciated Mr Service's analysis. Sorry he wasn't able to consider the Bruggen or the Maag, but understood his final choices. I also liked the Fischer/Danish [ ferney : have sent you a PM ] which I did not know and think might wish to acquire. To echo others, such an amazing work...




.

[jayne lee wilson]

That's a very good point.





Director: Mozart, do you have that new symphony for is yet? It's just that it's coming up to Christmas, and we're performing early in the new year.

Mozart: It's my finest symphony yet. In fact it's probably the finest symphony yet written, but I've been a bit pressed with other works.

Director: I understand. How far have you got with it?

Mozart: Nearly three movements so far. And I haven't even started the Menuetto.

Director: That's worrying. If the rest of the work is that good, it would be a pity to do a bodged job.

Mozart: Well, I have had another idea.

Director: Go on ...

Mozart: Years ago, I wrote shorter symphonies without a minuet. I could do the same again.

Director: Wouldn't that make it a bit short?

Mozart: Short? Not really. My early symphonies were much shorter. But I'll tell you what: I could fill out what I've got by doing what I did in those early symphonies. Just this once, I could add second half repeat to the first movement. I don't normally do this, but if we're pressed for time, it could be the answer. And I am rather proud of this movement.

Director: What about the planned minuet?

Mozart: Yes; that's a pity. It would have been the best one yet written, but I'll finish the movements I'm working on, with that extra repeat, and if there's time, I might yet manage to put that minuet on paper...

Reads like an outtake from Amadeus........

Here's Franz Bruggen on repeats in Gramophone 2/90, when his recording was released...
"I take all the repeats, and only then does it make sense that there's no minuet. I know there is a minuet that some think might have been intended for this symphony but I prefer it without.....
"But I'm not legalistic about repeats.... I know all the arguments, but I sometimes feel - it's only a feeling, I can't prove it - that sometimes they should be there, and sometimes they shouldn't...

[interviewer: the second repeat in the finale is hardly ever done, even now]...
"No, but it's very dramatic - you think you've reached an affirmative D Major conclusion, then - crash!"

As I'm never bothered by Tom Service's delivery, I'll listen keenly to this BaL later. I'd forgotten Norrington with the SWR, so there's something to look forward to... for me it maybe a good thing if he didn't include, or rate, my three or four recent favourites (OM/Abbado, Bruggen, OdPedV/Maag, Mackerras 2 etc). I'll get another oblique angle on the Mozartian Universe...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Marriner wasn't even mentioned (or was he?)

As TS liked Beecham so much, this would have provided a more modern alternative, the readings being very similar.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

"I take all the repeats, and only then does it make sense that there's no minuet. I know there is a minuet that some think might have been intended for this symphony but I prefer it without.

I haven't heard of this. Can anyone with a Koechel catalogue elaborate?

[Barbirollians]

Was not taken with the winners so a cheap BAL for me .The extract rather dismissively treated of the SCO mackerras reminded me just why it is my favourite modern recording .