BaL 30.12.17 - Mozart: Symphony no. 38 in D, K.504 "Prague"

[kea]

That is a very nice performance though.

It still is yes, but I think my tastes run more towards Kuijken/Minkowski these days..... of course hard to pit a live concert against a studio recording.

Thinking about it, I guess what makes the OAE less interesting for me is the lack of a clear artistic vision, since unlike Brüggen's own group or Concentus Musicus or probably most other HIPP ensembles it wasn't formed by a single artistic director whose priorities and ideas are reflected in its work, but quite deliberately functions more like a conventional orchestra in inviting guest conductors. Many people would see that as a plus point, I imagine!

I think that's fair—the musicians are all very good at what they do, and capable of adjusting to whatever style their guest conductor is doing, but I wouldn't think of it as an ensemble with a specific "identity" the way La Petite Bande is or whatever.

Anyway next I've queued up Norrington & the LCP, who I guess I don't normally associate with Mozart. So far it doesn't sound that weird apart from lots of long bows.

[HighlandDougie]

As Santa aka Amazon Italy brought me the Brüggen conducts Mozart 11 CD box a couple of days ago, as in:

https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B01C7W7KP6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I've been able to listen to the 'Prague' contained therein. Worthy of all the praise heaped on by earlier posters (and a suitable restorative after too much of the day spent on tedious revisions of some work).

And, as Santa aka Amazon Espana, has just brought the Krips Mozart box, I've been enjoying that as well. Stylish, light of touch, beautiful playing ....

[jayne lee wilson]

Very fond of it on acquisition (some years ago) and mistrustful of my recent discontent, I tried again with Peter Maag/Orchestra di Padova e del Veneto (ARTS), on a different CD transport. My disenchantment with the big, Romantic sound and lack of 2ndhalf repeats (hearing it too soon after Bruggen and Abbado) soon faded; my ears acclimatised, I heard a very carefully-shaped, sharply detailed and dramatic reading, really powerful in the outer movements, poised and elegant in the andante. Always with that characteristic, Maag-ian, rhythmic weight, precision and drive. Musically explicit, nothing taken for granted, every note tells.

So, of its kind, definitely a contender....

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

TS at his very worst, I'm afraid. He's right and the rest of us are off the map.

[Alison]

Plenty of meat to chew over for me.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

TS at his very worst, I'm afraid. He's right and the rest of us are off the map.

Having said that, I quite liked his shortlist, though Adam Fischer would have been my choice from that group.

As for dismissing everything without 2nd half repeats, I thought that was a ridiculous priority. A good word for the Beecham.

[LeMartinPecheur]

As for dismissing everything without 2nd half repeats, I thought that was a ridiculous priority.

Not if you think the scale of the 1st movement an essential feature of the work as TS clearly did, supported surely by his point that the repeated 2nd half is unique in the late symphonies. Comparisons with the Eroica were at the very least thought-provoking!

[Bryn]

Not if you think the scale of the 1st movement an essential feature of the work as TS clearly did, supported surely by his point that the repeated 2nd half is unique in the late symphonies. Comparisons with the Eroica were at the very least thought-provoking!

Agreed, though I missed the first 20 minutes or so (will catch up later). I thought TS argued his case very well, particularly with regard to the need to observe the first movement's repeats. That said, I think it quite likely that the lack of repeats in some of the older recordings may well have been down to a perceived need to squeeze the work within the constraints of the playback medium. Mind you, from the moment I tuned in it was clear the Rog and the Stuttgarters would get the top prize, and justly so.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Plenty of meat to chew over for me.

Having said that, I quite liked his shortlist, though Adam Fischer would have been my choice from that group.

As for dismissing everything without 2nd half repeats, I thought that was a ridiculous priority. A good word for the Beecham.

But TS did make clear why he considered those repeats essential, so only "ridiculous" if you think that Mozart was wrong. And it wasn't his only criterion - Abbado wasn't even mentioned, and he includes those second-half repeats.

A thought-provoking, incredibly annoying, and remarkably insightful - in all sorts of ways - BaL to end the year: one that made me more aware of the intricacies of this fantastic work than I had been, and keen to hear more of the Adam Fischer and the Carl Schuricht (recordings I didn't know about before today). Very glad I listened.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Not if you think the scale of the 1st movement an essential feature of the work as TS clearly did, supported surely by his point that the repeated 2nd half is unique in the late symphonies. Comparisons with the Eroica were at the very least thought-provoking!

- and reminded me of the (greatly-missed) Roehre who frequently made precisely this point on the Forum.

(But I did think that TS missed an important point by suggesting that the unique repeat was just for the benefit of the audiences hearing the harmonic innovations for the first time - something that could be counter-claimed; why do audiences now, who have heard the work frequently need such a repeat? It's a question of balance, proportion and scale, not of "familiarity" - after all, Beethoven's Eroica would still take the "longest Symphonic movement to date" if he had included a second-half repeat.
There's more going on here than that throw-away sentence suggested. )

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Just to lighten things up a bit,
Just to lighten things up a bit,
Imagine a twofer: TS and AMcG.
Imagine a twofer: TS and AMcG.

[Alison]

Few if any were the excerpts that I found a total switch off.

The symphony was the winner today.

[Pulcinella]

Just to lighten things up a bit,
Just to lighten things up a bit,
Imagine a twofer: TS and AMcG.
Imagine a twofer: TS and AMcG.

Would that only get us through the first movement, Alpie?


A bit of a background listen for me, I'm afraid, but nonetheless I was quite impressed, though, as Alison suggests, more with the music than with TS (not as effusive as feared).
Must listen again to the Naxos CD I have to see if it will do.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Just to lighten things up a bit,
Just to lighten things up a bit,
Imagine a twofer: TS and AMcG.
Imagine a twofer: TS and AMcG.

Aha! That's where you're going wrong, Alpie: it's I V I V "V" I "V" I - not Just a Minim.

[DracoM]

As a rarity, I suspect that ALL this morning's RR was pre-recorded. AMcG usually starts by thanking the NAMED newsreader - not today. Just did not feel 'live', and just a bit too careful....!!