BaL 16.12.17 - Schubert: Piano Sonata no. 21 in B flat D960

[Richard Tarleton]

#13 - thank you Richard, much appreciated

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Brendel plays his edition of the work very beautifully and according to his own conception of the piece - as he says, the bars he cuts "destroy ... the atmosphere of the Movement", meaning that he wants the "atmosphere" to be something other than what Schubert gives in these bars. The "jerky rhythm" that he first suggests "seem unconnected with anything else in the Sonata", and then becomes bolder "if they pointed .... to something elsewhere, then I would welcome them. But as that is not the case I do not play the repeat". The pairs of semiquavers he refers to (in every other bar of the "first time" passage) grow from the pairs of triplets in the right hand accompaniment to the A major section beginning at bar 49 - itself linked to the semiquaver Alberti-like accompaniment between bars 19 - 32. And they lead forward to the "snapped" rhythm in the left hand at the start of the Second Movement. The "connections" aren't "smooth", but they are (clearly, to me at any rate) there, and lead to something that is new, disruptive - and expansive: something Brendel's comments make clear he finds "too long".

Brendel's recordings of the work contain many beautiful insights, fitting both the "lyrical" view that he has of the work and, perhaps, the way he regards the instrument that he plays. But his inability/refusal to hear the significance of the bars he cuts means that (for me) his recordings cannot be recommended as the only version a collector owns.

[vinteuil]

Brendel's recordings of the work contain many beautiful insights, fitting both the "lyrical" view that he has of the work and, perhaps, the way he regards the instrument that he plays. But his inability/refusal to hear the significance of the bars he cuts means that (for me) his recordings cannot be recommended as the only version a collector owns.

... does your wording also hint at an unease with Brendel's steadfast 'inability/refusal to hear the significance' of the re-discovery of the sounds of the period piano?


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[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... does your wording also hint at an unease with Brendel's steadfast inability/refusal to hear the significance of the re-discovery of the sounds of the period piano?

Hmmm. Possibly. It seems churlish to complain uninhibitedly about performances which have not only given me tremendous pleasure over the years, but were the recordings from which I "learnt" most of the Schubert piano works. And Brendel has been very upfront about his own failed wish to be able to appreciate the timbres of the late 18th/early 19th Century pianos. I would say that I would have preferred it if he had been able to "do a Schiff" and rediscover the works as they sound on the instruments the composer would have been accustomed to, but accept that that was not to be, and - rather than be "uneasy" about this - accept the insights that he reveals. But, as I get older, I find I want less and less to hear recordings featuring 20th Century instruments in pre-20th Century repertoire; perhaps I'm making up for lost time? (Live performance is a different matter - I'd still prefer to hear such works on instruments of the period, but the Live Music-making, if vital, means that I can thoroughly relish more modern instruments.)

[vinteuil]

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... Paul Badura Skoda's performance on three different pianos looks really interesting -

http://amzn.eu/0waosT7

.

[pastoralguy]

Just listened to Pollini's DG recording. Quite marvellous, imho. (A pianist friend of mine reckons he's an android but I disagree).

[richardfinegold]

Brendel's recordings of the work contain many beautiful insights, fitting both the "lyrical" view that he has of the work and, perhaps, the way he regards the instrument that he plays. But his inability/refusal to hear the significance of the bars he cuts means that (for me) his recordings cannot be recommended as the only version a collector owns.

Respectfully disagree. Are we saying that Interpreters are not allowed to see things in their own light and perhaps tweak a few notes or bars here or there? The interval being considered is perhaps 15 seconds of a 40+ minute piece? I can understand disqualifying a performance on the basis of a wholesale revision, such as the hack jobs that the original soloists imposed on Tchaikovsky's Rococo Variations or his Second PC, but I do think we should allow performers to have a little license now and then....(?)
I think a more appropriate reaction would be something on the order of "The Brendel is a very fine recording, with the regrettable exception of one change that he makes in the text...which for this listener precludes an otherwise primary recommendation
in a crowded field."
And which collector owns only 1 version? Or these days, is limited to streaming only one?

[MickyD]

Hmmm. Possibly. It seems churlish to complain uninhibitedly about performances which have not only given me tremendous pleasure over the years, but were the recordings from which I "learnt" most of the Schubert piano works. And Brendel has been very upfront about his own failed wish to be able to appreciate the timbres of the late 18th/early 19th Century pianos. I would say that I would have preferred it if he had been able to "do a Schiff" and rediscover the works as they sound on the instruments the composer would have been accustomed to, but accept that that was not to be, and - rather than be "uneasy" about this - accept the insights that he reveals. But, as I get older, I find I want less and less to hear recordings featuring 20th Century instruments in pre-20th Century repertoire; perhaps I'm making up for lost time? (Live performance is a different matter - I'd still prefer to hear such works on instruments of the period, but the Live Music-making, if vital, means that I can thoroughly relish more modern instruments.)

Somewhere in my collection, there is an Andreas Staier CD that has a booklet with a full chat between Andreas Staier and Alfred Brendel...I must try and seek it out. Does anyone remember in which CD it features?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Respectfully disagree. Are we saying that Interpreters are not allowed to see things in their own light and perhaps tweak a few notes or bars here or there?

"Interpreters" can do what they want - for my own preference, I am much more interested in composers - and those performers who seek out what those composers meant by what they wrote (rather than those who presume they know better) get my vote.

The interval being considered is perhaps 15 seconds of a 40+ minute piece? I can understand disqualifying a performance on the basis of a wholesale revision, such as the hack jobs that the original soloists imposed on Tchaikovsky's Rococo Variations or his Second PC, but I do think we should allow performers to have a little license now and then....(?)

I think a lot depends on the work in question; a few bars (say, a thousand) trimmed off Scheherazade would, I agree, do much to enhance the quality of the work ( ) - but with Schubert, and with works as powerful as these last Sonatas, I believe that it behoves the performer to use his/her imagination to the utmost to discover possible meanings for the passages that give them most problems (I'm not talking about finger technique here).

I think a more appropriate reaction would be something on the order of "The Brendel is a very fine recording, with the regrettable exception of one change that he makes in the text...which for this listener precludes an otherwise primary recommendation in a crowded field."

- very eloquently put.

And which collector owns only 1 version? Or these days, is limited to streaming only one?

Fair point - I was thinking back to my impecunious student days (or, possibly, forward to my impecunious old age when I have to go into limited "accommodation"). But with second-hand CDs costing pennies and streaming - well, everyone can have access to several recordings. (Which rather begs the question that has often been raised in recent years - what's the point of BaL?)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Somewhere in my collection, there is an Andreas Staier CD that has a booklet with a full chat between Andreas Staier and Alfred Brendel...I must try and seek it out. Does anyone remember in which CD it features?

I don't, I'm sorry to say, Micky - but Googling took me to this comment by Staier, which I found very apposite:

there are also colleagues who have a completely different aesthetic and at the same time are such great musicians that talking to them is incredibly interesting. For example, I talked to Alfred Brendel again and again and also argued in a very amusing way with Andràs Schiff. But such musicians are also interested in historical performance practice. They just draw different conclusions.

[Richard Barrett]

The interval being considered is perhaps 15 seconds of a 40+ minute piece?

I don't think the significance of a passage of music is directly proportional to its duration; and, besides, it isn't just 15 seconds, it's that plus the entire exposition repeat.

[LeMartinPecheur]

.

... Paul Badura Skoda's performance on three different pianos looks really interesting -

http://amzn.eu/0waosT7

.

Why not try PBS's Schubert on 5 different early pianos? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schubert-Co...chubert+arcana
Fascinating set so far - 5 discs still to play

[MickyD]

I don't, I'm sorry to say, Micky - but Googling took me to this comment by Staier, which I found very apposite:

When I have a bit more time this weekend, I'll try and find it, fhg. I remember it being a fascinating conversation.

Incidentally, I also remember seeing Brendel in the audience at the Queen Elizabeth Hall at an HIP concert...I'm pretty sure it was for Beethoven piano concertos.

[Bryn]

When I have a bit more time this weekend, I'll try and find it, fhg. I remember it being a fascinating conversation.

Incidentally, I also remember seeing Brendel in the audience at the Queen Elizabeth Hall at an HIP concert...I'm pretty sure it was for Beethoven piano concertos.

That would probably have been with Robert Levin as fortepianist, I guess. Another musician prepared to make 'adjustments' where he feels it helps the communication of the music.

[Richard Tarleton]

Law Reports

Old Bailey, Friday

In what has come to be called the Case of the Missing Repeat, A Brendel, pianist of central European extraction, stands accused of wilfully mislaying a piece of music written by one F Schubert (deceased). The accused has chosen to conduct his own defence, and intends to enter numerous pieces of written and verbal testimony, as well as character references.

After the charges had been read out, prosecuting counsel R Barrett QC made a powerful opening statement and called for the maximum penalty. A forensic musicologist, a Mr Geleibte, gave detailed technical evidence which frankly went over the heads of some of the jury referring as it did to an Italian gentleman, a Mr Alberti, who had not previously been introduced to the court. A taped interview between the accused and a journalist, a Herr Meyer, was also played.

The defendant had argued that the piece of music was too long, was introduced by another, irrelevant piece that was too loud, and that it deserved to be lost. Among the character references for the defence were a Mr Gold, from the USA, who argued that it was only a very small piece of music anyway, but during cross-examination Mr Barratt demonstrated that it was in fact the key to a much larger piece, and that the offence was a serious one. Other witnesses even argued that Brendel was playing the music on the wrong instrument.

The case is expected to conclude tomorrow. Much is expected to hinge on the accused’s previous good character, and what mood the judge (His Honour D Owen-Norris) is in on the day. He is normally known for his good humour, but has been irritated in the past by the Clerk of the Court Mr McGregor, who has been known to pass him the wrong notes.