BaL 9.12.17 - Elgar: The Dream of Gerontius

[Bryn]

.... ho there! Is this a trade secret you're prepared to share? What / where are the 'back rooms', and how do you get to snoop about there??


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Search on amazon.co.uk for "elgar dream" then sort by price, low to high. A few minutes ago there were still low price copies available. Adding "Handley" just complicates the issue. You can also try other amazon sites such as .fr, .de, .it, .es, and .com.

[vinteuil]

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... many thanks!




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[subcontrabass]

Ooh! If you can sneak into the "back rooms" of Amazon, "Used - Very Good" copies are available for under a fiver: I've just ordered the Handley and a CD copy of the Britten (the latter to replace the cassettes) at just over a tenner with P&P added. (That's about 8% of the price of the Eminence Box - and avoids the innumerable "doublings".)

It's been a good day, so far!

I am pleased to have found a used copy of the CD transfer of Sargent's second recording (Marjorie Thomas, Richard Lewis and James Cameron). I used the LP version of this when I was studying the work for A level.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think Ferney is referring to the Marketplace sellers, Vints.

Sorry - yes this was the case indeed. Simply typing "Dream of Gerontius" in the "CDs & Vinyl" search engine came up with quite a few copies still available at the prices I'd seen in the past, whereas "Handley, Gerontius" earlier today had required nearly £25 for a Used copy (and with a coupling that I didn't want).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I am pleased to have found a used copy of the CD transfer of Sargent's second recording (Marjorie Thomas, Richard Lewis and James Cameron). I used the LP version of this when I was studying the work for A level.

I already have this very fine version.

[Zucchini]

...James Cameron

John. Splendid voice

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

John.

Oh, yes! A titanic mistake.

Splendid voice

[seabright]

I know there's a time limit on what can be illustrated in BAL but I thought it a pity that only one non-British recording, the Barenboim, was mentioned. For example, the 'Melodya' live recording of the Russian premiere of the work in Moscow in 1983 was ignored, despite being an excellent performance under Svetlanov, with the USSR Symphony accompanying British forces flown over specially for the occasion: Arthur Davis, Felicity Palmer, Norman Bailey and the LSO Chorus. Svetlanov, on one of his visits to London, had heard Sargent conduct the work in the Albert Hall and was so bowled over that he was determined to introduce it to the Russians and he did so quite superbly. Another Russian's performance, Vladimir Ashkenazy's with the Sydney Symphony Orchestra et. al. on 'Exton' was also ignored.

Perhaps the most fascinating non-British performance of all might have been one I've not yet heard: "Der Traum des Gerontius" from Austrian forces under Hans Swarowsky and issued by the Elgar Society on 'Orf.' David Cairns gave this a rave review in 2008 in The Times: "Germany was where Gerontius had its first success, after the failure of the Birmingham premiere. This recording, which was made in Vienna in 1960 and is sung in the original translation, confirms that there is no intrinsic reason why Elgar's music shouldn't be understood and adopted in German-speaking countries. The performance manifests absolute belief in the work by all concerned: the great Julius Patzak (then 62), the mezzo Ira Malaniuk, Ludwig Welter (superb as the Angel of the Agony), chorus, orchestra and the conductor, Hans Swarowsky, whose grasp of the score is complete." Yet not a single word about this unique performance in BAL. Sorry, not good enough.

[ARBurton]

Agree wholeheartedly with Seabright. Sir Colin Davis got very short shrift too although at least he was mentioned (although in fairness I never took to his Elgar). Now hunting the Handley...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Sir Colin Davis got very short shrift too although at least he was mentioned

"Short shrift" perhaps - but certainly not "very short shrift"; the Dresden recording was mentioned favourably at least twice - and even the LSO was also mentioned in passing, if only in the context of the Dresden being "much better than" it. (Needless to say, guess which of those two I own! )

As for seabright's "not good enough", well short of the return of Interpretations on Record, and a couple of hours on a work, BaL can never be "good enough" for any work worth owning. Given the restrictions of the format that sb mentions, this morning's overview was as good as it is possible to be.

[ardcarp]

A very well considered BAL by Mark Lowther, who made all the right caveats about making such a difficult choice. I was a bit surprised that he spent nearly half an hour (it seems...I was driving at the time) discussing Gerontius the tenor role, very important though it is. I wish he'd spent just a little more time on the chorus. OMG that version from Sakari Oramo and the CBSO symphony chorus was pretty hot stuff. In the infernal sense. I don't think the choirs available to Barbirolli, Sargent or Boult were anything like as good. Going back to the tenors, Gerontius is such a difficult part to undertake, and many tenors shy away from it. A heldentenor capability is needed to cope with its vocal demands, and yet there must (as ML said) be a sense of human fragility there. So an English lyric tenor pushing the bounds a bit (e.g. Anthony Rolfe Johnson) seems the perfect choice. Does anyone know if Philp Langridge recorded it? He sang on a BBC TV performance which may have been a Prom (yes, they really broadcast it...would they do it now?) but I didn't hear him mentioned today. Of the 'historic' performances, Richard Lewis was IMO a superb Gerontius, his diction being something that many modern singers and recordings cannot emulate. I've rambled a bit, but I think ML was so right when he said that no one version can push all the buttons. The Handley seems a pretty good choice...and I've got it on the shelf!

[Petrushka]

Does anyone know if Philp Langridge recorded it? He sang on a BBC TV performance which may have been a Prom (yes, they really broadcast it...would they do it now?) but I didn't hear him mentioned today.

See above (posts 15 & 20) re the St Paul's Cathedral performance at which Philip Langridge sang Gerontius. There was also an excellent 1991 Prom which was televised live with Florence Quivar as a fine Angel. I was also present at the centenary performance in Birmingham (Oct 3 2000) with Sakari Oramo which was superb and which I'd love to her again.

I well remember the Gramophone review of the Handley that was decidedly negative, especially about Catherine Wyn-Rogers and the backward recording of the chorus. I saw absolutely no reason to buy it at the time. What has changed so much that it now becomes a BaL choice?

[Beef Oven!]

I bought the Handley on the day of its release and enjoyed it. I was then very dispirited to read lots of lukewarm-negative reviews. I was silly enough to let the reviews put me off a bit.

I'm quite baffled as to how it has got better over time. Maybe the singers have warmed to the roles and the orchestra has got the hang of it now. I'll check later to see how much the performance has changed.

[Petrushka]

I bought the Handley on the day of its release and enjoyed it. I was then very dispirited to read lots of lukewarm-negative reviews. I was silly enough to let the reviews put me off a bit.

I'm quite baffled as to how it has got better over time. Maybe the singers have warmed to the roles and the orchestra has got the hang of it now. I'll check later to see how much the performance has changed.

If you see negative opinions from such respected Elgar authorities as Michael Kennedy or Jerrold Northrop Moore then you take note. I forget who penned the Gramophone review (probably MK) but if you enjoy it yourself then you question your own judgement in the light of such reviews. I don't take much notice nowadays but back then it was a different story when cash was tighter and not be wasted on a recording that didn't cut it.

I'm baffled as to what has changed.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I bought the Handley on the day of its release and enjoyed it. I was then very dispirited to read lots of lukewarm-negative reviews. I was silly enough to let the reviews put me off a bit.

I'm quite baffled as to how it has got better over time. Maybe the singers have warmed to the roles and the orchestra has got the hang of it now. I'll check later to see how much the performance has changed.